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Hi All,
Last week when opening my 940 driver's door there was a sharp snap
and suddenly there's no door detent, and a piece of busted 7MM
steel rod bent in a U turn on the floor.
I started looking around for a replacement hinge and found
mostly used ones at high prices and a few new ones at extremely
high prices.
Lucky for me, my friend sent one from his parts car. It needed
TLC including solvent and MMO to free a stuck pivot pin and
stuck cams. Packed with grease the hinge seemed to work fine in
the vise with a pair of vise grips for a lever. I let the pivot
soak all night with MMO. After cleaning up the grease and
spraying clean with brake cleaner I found that the 7MM rod had
severe wear with the most wear from the rivet head that holds the
cams. Next was from the cams, and the least wear was from the
bracket that holds the cams. UGH! I'd say that the rivet head
cut a slot about 20% of the way through the 7MM rod.
Then I checked the cams and they had at least 3/32" slop with the
rivets. The cam clearances went to heck.
So door hinges are like people, living on borrowed time.
Can Hinges be repaired?
There is some good news, www.swedishcarparts.com offers a spring
1355200-S claiming it fits 200 series, but looking like the same
spring in the 940. Maybe its the same hinge in the 7/900's ?
The rivets are a simple job for anyone with a lathe and I'm not
certain what metal rod to start with, certainly not soft steel.
Something that will wear well against the cams, and can be staked.
The wear might be at the rivet shoulder, or maybe there's
wear on the cam ID? That would be bad news to duplicate the cams
likely precision castings.
The rivet is staked into the frame. It looks like a SS compression
washer under the head of the rivet and that should be changed with
a rehab. Do machine shops have husky staking machines?
Meanwhile How to Lube and extend the life of your hinges.
My Volvo trained tech friend told me to keep greasing the hinges
and he did this for me this spring. But he was working on new cars and
now they are thirty, forty years old, and over 200,000 miles Volvo's are
just getting broken in, unlike junky Fords that are lucky to reach
100,000 before "Found On Road Dead". But TLC is needed more than ever.
If you cover the cams with grease the rivet shoulder and cam ID's
are begging for lube and will grind themselves up as explained above.
The rod should only be contacted by the cams.
Proposed method to lube hinges, subject to review by resident wizards:
Clean the old grease off the cams and surroundings.
Spray with brake cleaner, I'd be afraid of the mess compressed air
would make. With the door open insure that the cams turn free,
if not, do a Mystery oil soak or WD4 the world best solvent, until the
cams turn free, whatever it takes, maybe some days.
Just a few drop at a time, wiping up any extra, also MMO on the Pivot pin.
After the cams turn free, clean up and put some heavy oil on the rivets,
the top of the cams, and the pivot pin.
I wonder if pivot that pin will pop out easily with a hammer and punch?
Then you could wire brush and grease before reinstalling a happy pin.
Then put grease (Mobil-1 Synthetic or Wheel bearing grease?)
on the face of the cams that contact the 7MM rod and pack under the
head of the rivets to seal the compression washers. That will help keep
salt spray and elements out of the Rivet shoulder and cam ID.
Machine Man where are you? Maybe you'll volunteer to turn the rivets?
I'd like your opinion on what you think, and have pictures to send you,
or anyone else that wants them, and might be able to post them.
Comments? Bill
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Ahoy Mr. Eggnog,
The drivers door hinge gets the most abuse as you would expect.
The steel shoulder rivet for the detent cam wears allowing the detent spring to grind against the shoulder rivet and frame bracket,
eventually cutting the detent spring.
My best guess to lube the hinges is to first clean out the old stuff.
(not so easy, and possibly messy if you use compressed air).
Confirm the cams turn free.
Then get oil, maybe a few drops of gear oil on the top of the cam so it can wick onto the shoulder rivet.
Then grease on the detent cam including sealing the top of the detent cam and compression washer to keep out the elements.
Use your favorite grease and renew periodically.
>May be easier to replace the door hinge bits. Voluparts. Unless you have good salvage yard near you in MA-state. eBay?
I found a set of 4 used front door hinges on Ebay at a good price.
Question 1:
I have a good used hinge and wonder if it can be swapped out without taking the door off?
Question 2: Does anyone sell the detent spring separate?
With a new shoulder rivet and detent spring you could rebuild the bad hinge,
providing the detent cam bore is OK.
The detent spring has some little sleeve where it is crudely crimped into position. Dunno what for?
Happy new year, Bill
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Hi Bill,
I saw your notes especially the one to me about making some rivets.
If I made anything it would have to be from round stock or billet type material. Maybe something that was scrap or shot something and I kept for its metal.
It probably would not be better than what you can buy over a counter.
Bolts screws and Rivets are not exactly what you might think and are made like bolts and screws using a “dead heading process” that is more or less like a forged product because it’s done cold.
Here is an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOsnteNWJ_c
As you see from above this is company and surroundings that I’m familiar with but not exactly appreciative of their company pricing structure in retail outlets.
This will give you an idea of why I think they are more expensive than they need to be.
Just watch the catch bins!
They have many franchises around the country and IMO that hurts them but if you need something you can go look them in the eyes and put hands on it. That’s a luxury that costs more than I would have ever imagined.
The rivet material is made stronger in many ways.
What you can make in a lathe will not have the grain structure or hardness that you saw cutting through the spring rod material in the hinge.
The spring is only tempered so it’s not as tough or hard as the rivet. Each made to possess a particular purpose of function.
I have an email in my profile page if you want to share pictures.
I have never paid any attention to a 900 series door hinge.
What you are describing might be repaired or redesigned to accept a small diameter shoulder bolt.
They come hardened and the cam wheel made to turn on it.
The bolt could be threaded in or welded but then so could a rivet that’s far cheaper.
Examples like …
https://www.fastenal.com/product/Fasteners/Rivets/Solid%2520Rivets?fsi=1&categoryId=612205
Repairing is like engineering.
Pick you diameter and length but stay standard in one form or another to make bean counters or frugal owners happy. 🙂
I agree that Ford used the same system on their pickups of the seventies.
I will agree that Fords “better ideas” and the advertisers using a light bulb turning on was a bit miss leading.
They tested products to see how long they would last but it turned out to be a double edged sword or balance beam for consumers.
They learned to not to make anything last longer, especially, if it was costing more to produce.
If you think I’m picking on Ford or the automotive industry just look in the plumbing business.
They really push the envelope of thin as possible or special so nothing else fits in when it’s obsolete.
The door hinge has lots of options.
I also noticed within the pickup models, covering several years, that a hole would appear in sheet metal bracing to become a bracket for the vacuum tank or evaporative canister.. The engine hood got lighter and possibly weaker but the “ideas”reduced costs to meet mandates.
Scaling needs to be in a photograph or exact dimensions or it would not be very helpful to manufacture from.
As far as installing rivets by what you are calling “staking” is a similar to the heading process.
Another term that can be considered as swaging. A Pop rivet.
Production lines use cross hammer formation heads, to increase tightness along the diameter inside the joint material.
A rotary orbiting machine only closes the end without excessive stresses on the crimping material.
It’s more gradual and controlled.
Riveting goes back a long ways into the history of metal fasteners or before metals.
Pegs and wedges in wood are leaders to our plastic rivets of today.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
The profile function and Brickboard mail has been busted for months.
Maybe you have a disposable email address (Gmail for instance) ?
You need to see the close up pictures.
For instance a shoulder bolt of the right size for the cams would not be able
to have a large hex head or it would interfere with the 7MM detent rod.
A threaded shoulder rivet may be too weak for the stress.
There's places near me that supply rod stock in various metals.
I wouldn't think of turning some Brazilian soft steel lag bolt found at
Home Depot or the hardware stores.
Maybe someone has had the shoulder rivets snap off?
Then they might lose the cam and be SOL to repair that hinge.
We need to remove a rivet to get the info to machine a new part.
Then we need to know about staking or heading as you say,
This info is somewhere, maybe the Machinist Handbook.
It will give dimensions needed for the process.
Maybe the shoulder rivet could be welded in? Maybe not?
There's an interesting number stamped on the hinge bracket: L6670
I did a little searching to see if it was a stock hinge for manufacturer
with no luck. But maybe someone can get lucky and find out who made the hinge.
Swedishcarparts is selling the 7MM (approx) detent rod so that was made to be replaceable. Maybe this hinge is used by other car makers, Probably in EU.
You would also think an 8-9" 7MM rod with two 180 degree bends would be
easy to make and sell for a lot less than $45.00 + shipping
The rod mikes up 0.282" but is approximate since it's painted and corroded.
Not your regular size at Home Depot or Ace Hardware.
I wonder if the cams are forged?
You might go look at your driver door hinge and see if the rod shows wear
and if the cams are turning and have any fore and aft slop relative to the
rod. Tell me what's the best way to get lube to the shoulder rivet and cam bore. I suspect once it starts wearing that there's a destructive steel particle grit in there that will accelerate the wear, so maintenance would require cleaning that old stuff out before re greasing. Cleaning was hard enough when you have the hinge in your hand, worse in place.
Using compressed air to clean might make an ugly mess, but maybe there's a way?
Thanks, Bill
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Hi Bill,
I have access to the profiles thanks to Dave Steven’s “work around.”
He put on the BB some time ago and I have mentioned it before in my posts.
I don’t know how he figured it out but he is a man of many talents and you are doing well too!
Here is his solution….
When you go out to get a profile you get the error code.
You then click on the address bar and open it up.
You then go and highlight the area between the two hash marks, that says RWD and delete it.
You then replace that section with the word tools capitalized.
Example …: /TOOLS/ and then resend the address.
That’s provided you are logged in on the BB of course.
I don’t know about the “claiming to be” viewers to have access.
Not sure that you have to be a subscriber either as advertisers are still worming their way in on mine.
Ignoring them is becoming another skill to acquire to instantly recognize the closer mechanisms or become blind to them altogether.
As far as the shoulder bolt idea I was visualizing that I would find a socket head bolt with the HEX or TORX head. They would be recessed and flat top for the head itself would be thinner.
These heads are likely case hardened for the tools.
If they are larger than the cams you speak of then a person could dress them down in size with an abrasive wheel. No lathe work but if so, a carbide tip might be advisable.
The .282 was the 7mm wire spring steel material.
I have no idea about the size of the internal hole in said cams as the 240 used a serrated disc loaded by wave spring. The holding effect is the distance between or past their locations.
Simple as the seventies.😉
It sounded like your cams are worn out too.
As far as maintenance the dealerships used white lithium spray grease and manuals said to use engine oil.
Both were messy over time but the white one was their preference for the customer to notice.
The older hinges even had oil or grease fittings but that did nothing for the wheels.
A motorcycle chain lube that clings and penetrates might be a better choice.
GM’s Camaro “Long Doors” just popped and creaked until the door was about to fall off or the inside door handle pulled off. That was a race too. 🤫
Jeeps have used casted bushings but they crumble but cheap. Use to be $8 to do both front doors but then who used doors? 🙂
Phil
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Hi Phil,
That workaround to reach the profile works good.
The bad news is that Brickboard mail is dead.
I got a "permanent error" code.
You can find my email in the profile and send me mail
so I can return the pictures.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I tried that this morning. We shall see.
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I've always lubed my hinges (w/moly) to the point the doors now barely stay open on a slope. It was on the dealer routine service checklist along with the trunk hinges that few ever bother to do, also lubing and wiping the antenna mast for retraction.
Once the roller cams get a bit worn on their studs and the U-spring metal fatigues then problems are inevitable.
I would think used is the best option, rather than repair. Extra care needs to be taken to crack and restore the paint bond after adjustment for rust reasons. Without checking, I'm only guessing that 240 hinges don't fit. Even if the bolt holes align the pin also has to align.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
I got a set of 4 used front hinges and the detent cams were badly frozen.
I couldn't budge them by hand at first.
The cam wouldn't move in the vise using large vise grips on the hinge.
After flushing with solvent, liquid wrench and MMO they finally moved.
You can loosen them with slip joint pliers from the top.
It looks like the cams had rusted to the bracket.
The driver door hinge has the most wear as you would expect with very little wear on the detent spring.
There's much less play in the cam so it's the one I'll use.
Make sure the detent cams turn free.
If they freeze up in the car, the cam detent will start cutting the spring.
Is it possible to replace the lower hinge without removing the door?
Thanks, Bill
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Hi Bill. I just took a look at my hinges. First off, there is minimal wear on the driver door rod and of course that's because I lube the hinges every few years so the cam rollers don't freeze.
As for the hinge replacement procedure, I've not had to remove them, but I just took a good look at what would be involved. Normally you would want to remove the door with the hinges in place then remove the hinges from the door. The chassis bolts are mounted from inside the car so you need to remove the under dash knee bolster assembly and the footwell panel for access.
You can expect all the bolts to be very, very difficult to get started, quite likely requiring an impact gun with an impact quality socket and possibly a short impact quality extension and maybe even a swivel head socket for the uppermost bolt.
I mentioned about paint bonds before. You'll notice the chassis side bolts go through the hinges with the exposed threads coated in paint, so expect problems there. You're likely not going to be getting any PB Blaster into the threads. At the factory, I believe the car is primed with the doors off, but the colour and clear coats are done with the doors mounted. The ends of the door bolts will likely be similar on the inside of the door. To make matters worse, Volvo often uses red threadlocker in such applications. Failing someone here having done this job on a 700/900, I'd want to ask at a local body shop about what to expect. It wouldn't surpise me if they said a torch might be needed.
Now as for getting the main lower hinge off with the door still in place, that's likely not going to be easy, if not impossible. You won't be able to get an impact driver on the door bolts unless the door is off. Odds are you're going to need a breaker bar to get them started, partly for head clearance and mostly for leverage. For me, I'd probably start with a 1/2" impact socket on a breaker and failing that go for my high strength metric crowsfeet on a breaker (I recently got a crowsfoot set to do the PITA frozen fill tube brass fitting on the trans pan, finally resorting to cutting the tube the way I should have in the first place). I'd want to make sure the crowsfoot jaw was a snug fit so as not to round the bolt.
Let us know how you make out. Too bad the used hinges you got were rusty and frozen.
I once had to loosen a door catch for re-adjustment in my 740 (same doors). In my impact gun I twisted and snapped a supposedly impact rated hex (Torx?) bit trying to get the bolts started. The heads on those bolts are tapered and recessed, which probably makes them worse. I got a replacement bit under a lifetime guarantee. Beginning again, I started by using a hand sledge and pounding on the broken bit to try breaking the recessed head and thread bond, followed by using my extra long breaker on the new bit and it finally came.
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Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
Did your cams turn free and do they have a lot of fore and aft play?
Too much cam play you'll see up to three sections of wear on the detent spring.
Eventually the detent cam will fall back and the detent spring will ride on the cam bracket and shoulder rivet and maybe the detent wont hold the door so well.
Thanks for the low down on removing the door.
If I find bare metal when doing this job, I'll hit it with paint on cold (90%) zinc. That's the next best thing to cold galvanize.
Is there a bullet connector to unplug to get the door off?
This is something that gives me the creeps since I realize that unplugging
old bullet connectors can open a can of worms. I just got the spare parts to replace the RSR connector from Dave Barton should I have to go near that.
I'll send you some photos of various crapped out bullet connectors that I
found in this car, if I can find your email address.
Best, Bill
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For door removal and the wiring, I'd plan on disconnecting all the wiring inside the door and pulling the cables and connectors out from that end. Don't sweat the connectors pins -it's not like you're ever going to be opening them more than two or three times over the life of the car and this is all low voltage stuff. I doubt the connectors on the connector blocks under the dash will pull out the other way though the chassis pillar opening, also a pain to get up underneath the dash into the rats nest of wiring to find however many main connector blocks are involved and need to be opened.
I see a few notes in the FAQ and in other forums on hinge removal in the RWDs. There's no mention of needing an impact driver, so maybe consider that a contingency plan if you run into trouble.
Trickiest bit is door realignment, as you can well imagine, also not damaging paint. With that in mind, it sure would be nice to keep the upper hinge in place, so well worth a thought of which tools you've got access to that can get on the door bolts and loosen them with the door only able to open 45 degrees. You're going to need to keep the door perfectly aligned with just the lower hinge loose so as not to strain the upper hinge pin and possibly bend or break it.
It's hard to imagine not needing a spare set of hands for this job.
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Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
Please send me an email, so I can send you the pictures (I lost your email)
>I've always lubed my hinges (w/moly) to the point the doors now barely stay open >on a slope.
Maybe the shoulder rivets are badly worn so the rod isn't held by the cam and now riding on the cam bracket and rivet head.
That would explain why your door detent is lousy now. (look at my pictures)
>Once the roller cams get a bit worn on their studs and the U-spring metal >fatigues then problems are inevitable.
The 7MM rod doesn't fatigue, It gets cut after the shoulder rivet wears.
>I would think used is the best option, rather than repair.
If you get lucky. A set of four used 740 front hinges is in the mail
to me now. I'll tell you how good they are after I get them.
>Extra care needs to be taken to crack and restore the paint bond after >adjustment for rust reasons.
Please explain? You lost me here.
>Without checking, I'm only guessing that 240 hinges don't fit. Even if the >bolt holes align the pin also has to align.
You're probably right or Volvo wouldn't have a different part number for 700/900s. But the detent spring/7MM rod is replaceable.
Maybe that 240 spring will fit the 700/900?
Check for cam slop and see if the 7MM rod is being cut in your car.
Bill
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I like the idea of repairing the hinge . I would want to make sure it was going to work for a long time before installing it though. There`s a good bit of work replacing the hinge. The cams do rotate on the hinge on my 740 but also look like they could fail soon. Good work Bill,
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Is the detent spring being cut?
Also look for wear on the outer edge of the cam bracket that means
the shoulder rivet is badly worn.
Greasing the cams is not doing much if anything to lube the shoulder rivet.
Try cleaning off the cams and the space under the rivet head where the compression washer is, wash it out with a brush with MMO or WD40 and try to get
some heavy oil (maybe gear oil? comments?)into the shoulder rivet/ cam bore.
Then pack with new grease and be sure to seal the gap under the rivet head where the compression washer is.
That will help slow down the wear, and resulting PIA.
Cheers, Bill
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