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What's good in shocks / struts these days? I've tried to be diligent in figuring this out on my own, but was left more confused than when I began (especially about Sachs).
I'm going to be doing the rear first, because I'm short on free time. I don't mind going with a different series or even brand front / rear.
I like the idea of OE ride. But several times per year I load the wagon up (including a large rooftop box), and head into the mountains for camping with my kids. I may, in the next year, install overload springs, or better yet, fab up some plates for the hole in the middle of the coil spring mount for the trailing arms so that I can install an Airlift 1000 universal airspring helper kit. So I'm realistic in accepting a loss in comfort to compliment the stiffer rear...
Right now, the car gets really floaty in the back on the highway fully loaded. It's disconcerting on bends at highway speed. It's presently on 9 year old OE Volvo shocks with 25k on them (fronts likely OG), and Goodyear Reliant all-season (soft sidewall) 205/55/16s. I've experimented with pressures, and settled on 30F/32R psi unloaded, and 34/39 loaded. The NA motor gets me up the Green Mts. at highway speeds with AC (albeit barely) though. So there's that :-).
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EDIT to above: I neglected to say, but I believe all my dampers have degraded. The back when loaded is most apparent, but even light, the car seems just a bit bouncy on rougher surface streets, and a tad floaty on the freeway. Not terrible, but I think it's time to refresh. They seem to pass the "bounce test" but I understand that's kind of like kicking the tires.
Thanks--Wilson
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Well all of this time, I've been under the assumption that FCP only carries rear shocks for my car in options I don't want: Billstien B6/HD, Koni Sport, and OEM (Monroe?). I've even seen forum posts seeming confirming that FCP doesn't offer Billstein B4 or either Sachs shock for the rear. Well that is wrong.
While it doesn't come up in a keyword (word being "shock" "suspension" "damper"), I found the Bilstein B4. It was listed with the "you may also need:" items below the listing description. So I entered the Sachs part number for the monotube rear, and it also came up. And of course the Sachs happen to be on sale (along with the bearings, mounts, and boots that I want for the front) which ends tomorrow. I would really like buy from FCP because of their lifetime warranty, plus they are local to me. Not to mention the free shipping. Right before I found the Sachs, I considered the B4, because if the clunking happens to me, I can swap them out--at least for as long as FCP carries them. The Bilstein B4 fronts seem to be liked, until they fail, because they reportedly seize, rather than fail to dampen. Of course FCP doesn't carry KYB, so if I want to support them, while having the assurance of the warranty, KYB is off the table. And if I want to take advantage of the sale, I need to decide soon. Which isn't the end of the world, because I tend to drag these things out way too long. Truth is, any quality shock will beat the heck out of what's on there now.
So I'm going to sleep on it. putting the on-sale Sachs on all four corners will run roughly $197, Bilstein TC at reg. price for approximately $280. Plus the associated bits needed for the fronts. Both within my self-imposed $300 budget for just the dampers. But there's no evidence that convinces me that the Bilstein will perform better than the Sachs, and plenty to suggest the Bilstein will give trouble. So I'm leaning in favor of the Sachs twin tube front paired with the mono rear. Yeah they're a "brand" now, having been absorbed by other companies a few times. But I've read very few critical anecdotes, aside from others sharing my confusion. Good or bad, at least the Bilstein B4 opinions seem to be fairly consistent over the years.
I secretly despise sales, because they tend to taint my decision making process. The number of regrets in purchasing sale items is extremely high compared to paying full price. And I expect I'm not alone there. However, even prior to the sale, I really thought the Sachs F&R combo might be my best bet. I also figured I'd be buying the Sachs for the front regardless of what I chose for the rear, so KYB in the rear isn't completely out of the question. But again, I like getting it all from FCP now that I'm aware of the option.
Decisions, decisions...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Well?
IRS? If yea, how are them rear suspension bushings, CV joint boots, grease pack inside the boots and splined axle shaft interfaces between the diff and rear wheel hub assemblies.
Rear factory Nivomat dampers?
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/RearSuspension.htm
Also, the front:
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/FrontSuspension.htm
May want to ask at Turbobricks (www.turbobricks.com). You can read some content yet to see all content an ask requires a free account.
Also, how are them rear wheel bearings?? You may have easy to replace sealed bearings yet I do not know how many miles before replacement.
If early 700-maybe 900, yiou have a solid live rear axle. So bushings, rear hub work inspection (parking brake), and check rear wheel bearings like on 240.
Plenty of testimonials here, using search or goofgle search with over load or heavy after market springs you may get used, from Volvo, or Moog,
How are them front strut mounts? Have you serviced the front torque rod and suspension bits.
How many miles?
If overload springs, you'd get dampers that match sprint rate. Watch them air lift dampers as these may or may not last very long yet you can watch a fully loaded rear rise. Give and take on cost benefit.
If you stay stock springs front and rear and are sure the suspension bits are okay like bushings, Bilstein Touring may be okay, yet the rear will sag. A happy medium may be the air lift or like rear dampers. If your 700 - 900 has rear Nivomats, well, you'll have some moddin' to do.
I'll guess you do not have ride height spring changes like lowering or sport spring. My stupid idea as thi8s forum was all about cutting, lowering or like spring with Billy's Billy's Billy's (Stupid me) in 2000. As in Bilstein HD (B6 in the new Bilstein vernacular?).
Search this forum and also Turbobricks for folks doing the same to their (what year? 700-900 series with IRS or solid live rear axle.
Research is cheapo.
Error 503 or 504?
--
Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert & Gene Siskel  ![](https </p>
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
|
|
Well?
IRS? If yea, how are them rear suspension bushings, CV joint boots, grease pack inside the boots and splined axle shaft interfaces between the diff and rear wheel hub assemblies.
Rear factory Nivomat dampers?
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/RearSuspension.htm
Also, the front:
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/FrontSuspension.htm
May want to ask at Turbobricks (www.turbobricks.com). You can read some content yet to see all content an ask requires a free account.
Also, how are them rear wheel bearings?? You may have easy to replace sealed bearings yet I do not know how many miles before replacement.
If early 700-maybe 900, yiou have a solid live rear axle. So bushings, rear hub work inspection (parking brake), and check rear wheel bearings like on 240.
Plenty of testimonials here, using search or goofgle search with over load or heavy after market springs you may get used, from Volvo, or Moog,
How are them front strut mounts? Have you serviced the front torque rod and suspension bits.
How many miles?
If overload springs, you'd get dampers that match sprint rate. Watch them air lift dampers as these may or may not last very long yet you can watch a fully loaded rear rise. Give and take on cost benefit.
If you stay stock springs front and rear and are sure the suspension bits are okay like bushings, Bilstein Touring may be okay, yet the rear will sag. A happy medium may be the air lift or like rear dampers. If your 700 - 900 has rear Nivomats, well, you'll have some moddin' to do.
I'll guess you do not have ride height spring changes like lowering or sport spring. My stupid idea as thi8s forum was all about cutting, lowering or like spring with Billy's Billy's Billy's (Stupid me) in 2000. As in Bilstein HD (B6 in the new Bilstein vernacular?).
Search this forum and also Turbobricks for folks doing the same to their (what year? 700-900 series with IRS or solid live rear axle.
Research is cheapo.
Error 503 or 504?
--
Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert & Gene Siskel
|
posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
|
|
Well?
IRS? If yea, how are them rear suspension bushings, CV joint boots, grease pack inside the boots and splined axle shaft interfaces between the diff and rear wheel hub assemblies.
Rear factory Nivomat dampers?
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/RearSuspension.htm
Also, the front:
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/FrontSuspension.htm
May want to ask at Turbobricks (www.turbobricks.com). You can read some content yet to see all content an ask requires a free account.
Also, how are them rear wheel bearings?? You may have easy to replace sealed bearings yet I do not know how many miles before replacement.
If early 700-maybe 900, yiou have a solid live rear axle. So bushings, rear hub work inspection (parking brake), and check rear wheel bearings like on 240.
Plenty of testimonials here, using search or goofgle search with over load or heavy after market springs you may get used, from Volvo, or Moog,
How are them front strut mounts? Have you serviced the front torque rod and suspension bits.
How many miles?
If overload springs, you'd get dampers that match sprint rate. Watch them air lift dampers as these may or may not last very long yet you can watch a fully loaded rear rise. Give and take on cost benefit.
If you stay stock springs front and rear and are sure the suspension bits are okay like bushings, Bilstein Touring may be okay, yet the rear will sag. A happy medium may be the air lift or like rear dampers. If your 700 - 900 has rear Nivomats, well, you'll have some moddin' to do.
I'll guess you do not have ride height spring changes like lowering or sport spring. My stupid idea as thi8s forum was all about cutting, lowering or like spring with Billy's Billy's Billy's (Stupid me) in 2000. As in Bilstein HD (B6 in the new Bilstein vernacular?).
Search this forum and also Turbobricks for folks doing the same to their (what year? 700-900 series with IRS or solid live rear axle.
Research is cheapo.
Error 503 or 504?
--
Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert & Gene Siskel
|
posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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|
Hi,
I can only suggest you look into KYB Gas-Adjust for the rears and not in the EXCEL-G line. To me the latter is more OE or get me by shocks. They are smaller but still a decent shock for just a standard replacement.
The original GA are larger in diameter first of all and it’s all internally to build up more stiffness the more they are worked. Very similar working theory as the older MONROE 500 line shocks in 1974. They were built for the twin I-Beam FORD suspension pick ups to handle their mass.
I do not know what Monroe offers but for my money I have concluded that what ever came or comes stock on AMERICAN domestic vehicles do not last worth beans.
My truck came new with special low cost or contractor shocks made by GABRIEL. I will never touched that brand again.
Same thing happened with me and FORDS for the next 50 years.
But surely the FORDS got better in designing someplace to still be in business but I will not bet on any shock absorbers they pick ever being great.
That is never mentioned as a power train warranty item!
I have seen mileage warranties on shocks @ around 10,000 miles being advertised, so what’s up with that?
The KYB brand GA’s have held up very well on my ‘86 245 with overloads springs from IPD.
A little stiff when empty but no squishy driving them.
The later line models of Volvo especially the 700 sedans got monkeyed around with. The self leveling Nivomat mats are a very over priced night mare IMO from SACH and sagging springs was another issue.
You may just have the springs (leftover?) as the cars came two ways.
SACH and Volvo ideas didn’t mix well on that model. IMHO Volvo got too GM- ish and K- car for my taste.
Doing the spring upgrading may elevate most of your situation as shocks, front and rear are only recoil Suppressors.
If you pull a shock it should resist movement without gurgling or travel movement without resistance.
The gas is there to reduce foaming as the fluid heats up.
A Coolant or any working fluid under pressure contains more heat to raise its temperature.
That in turn creates a higher temperature gradient so heat actually transfers mor quickly when given a restricted dimension of dissipation.
Like I said, the Excel-G line looks to be smaller in diameter but that doesn’t mean they didn’t up the pressure.
I have compared the two side by side. Cold they worked the same so only time will tell, if I ever put them on a car that I determine needs them. I stash stuff.😬
Why they still make the two it must be a marketing thing to auto makers and the public?
Phil
Check carefully in that arena.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hi Phil,
Your experience with the Gas-A-Just and Overload springs is helpful! Granted the 245 Is a somewhat lighter car with a different suspension design, but the end result should be similar. I feel much better about KYB G-A-J.
I want to like KYB, as they are clear about their product lines, and their stuff is marked as it is. I've seen Sachs automatic and Advantage marked with the blue label, even though the Advantage should be red. Their own site is very confusing, and doesn't list the differences between the two lines of rear shock. As far as KYB and the two lines, my understanding is that they position Excel-G as OEM level, and Gas-A-Just as a HD / upgraded level unit.
As for my car coming with the wrong springs, it has crossed my mind that the supposedly stiffer wagon springs seem a bit inadequate for a mid-sized wagon. I chalked that up to possible age. I could always measure the wire diameter, I suppose.
Of course, nothing is simple for me. I manage to complicate everything. Just as I was leaning heavily towards the KYBs, I noticed something that throws a wrench into the works, which I'll address in a separate post in this thread.
-Wilson
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I don’t know if they are available for your car, but KONI’s are adjustable so they might fit your needs. They also have a limited lifetime warranty. Downside is they are pricey….
https://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/Cars/#:~:text=Our%20shocks%20are%20made%20from,lifetime%20warranty%20on%20our%20shocks.
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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That's a really good suggestion. Koni yellow are available for this application. I dismissed the adjustability factor as I associate adjustable damping with sporty driving. Having that ability to compensate for varying loads didn't occur to me. But as you said, they are pricy, and I'm trying to find the middle ground there (like all four corners for ~$300). I've already spent way more time and money (especially time) than I intended to when I bought a one-owner, dealer maintained car with full service and repair documentation.
Plus I'd figured even at the lowest settings, they'd probably be firmer than I want, although I know I'd get used to it. Couldn't be any stiffer than my wife's V60 with the 18"s. My car handles like poo, so I figured I might as well cash in on the comfort aspect. I really don't mind. Between the plushness, and the N/A power, I almost always drive this car sensibly, and that's the way I like it.
I'm probably going to go for the Sachs Monotube on the rear, although the KYB gas-a-just seems like it could be a contender. I know I'm not going to be able to have it all, so I figure I'll prioritize unloaded ride quality, safe handling when loaded (of course I'm driving even more gentle in that situation), and price. In that order. I realize it's a fools errand to try to solicit advice on subjective matters, But anecdotes about quality are certainly universal. I've been able to write off Bilstien Touring Class (B4) rears for the common clunking they develop, for example.
My greatest fear is that I'll swap out the dampers, and not notice a change. I've experienced just that at least once before. At least the rears should be an easy job. I've already suffered getting the seized lower bolts out, and re-assembled with anti-seize.
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