Went out last night to start the 960 and something happened. Something bad. After starting normally and running for a few seconds she "hick-uped" and died. She'll turn over strongly but just won't fire. More disturbing is her desire to start after the ignition is shut off. Only for a few seconds, but...? I've checked the fuel pump fuses. They're fine. It's been hovering in the upper 20's here, if that's of any consequence. Anyone? Thanks.

For the benefit of all, allow me to respond to my own post. It seems that the cylinders are allowed to fill with fuel if the motor is run for a short period of time. Less than five minutes, according to my local expert. After much cranking, whilst electrically hooked up to the Toyota, she fired to life. Much, much cranking! Hope this helps someone out.

It has been called "lawn mower syndrome" here on the board. One starts the car to say, move the lawn mower out of the garage, letting the engine idle just a few seconds. The next time you start, you have a no start condition. I have had this happen about four or five times. One must have a strong battery, I also hold the gas pedal to the floor, this shuts off the injectors while cranking. The cause is a combination of carbon deposits on the valve stems and the piston tops and upper cylinders. The gasoline is soaked up by the carbon and the deposits on the valve stems gets a little soft and hang up, sometimes having the valve tappets compensate for this and not allowing the valve or valves to close completely causing a flood condition making it even more difficult to start. Not letting the engine run a few minutes to warm the compression chamber and vaporize any unburned fuel left in the cylinder. Now this has not happened to me since taking great care not to shut down the engine for at least 3-4 minutes of idle. This only has happened to me when the temperature is below 35 degrees. Also changing to synthetic engine oil helps minimize valve build up.


DanR 94 964 240,000 miles*
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DanR

Dear DanR,

Good p.m. I know nothing of 960 engines, never having owned one. Your comment about carbon build-ups grabbed my attention.

Those can happen with any engine, and will happen over time. Gasoline is a witch's brew of hydrocarbons, including paraffins and other materials that "plate out" on fuel system components. These accumulate and need to be removed. Gasolines have detergents to do this, but the amount of detergent per gallon may not be enough to remove all of the "crud" in that gallon.

So, every 1,500 miles, I put a bottle of Techron in the gas tank, before fuelling.

Techron is a fuel detergent concentrate. It contains the same detergents as are in gasoline.

It will scrub carbon from injectors, valve seats/stems, etc.

I used it diligently in a 85 240GL with 198K. The injectors, fuel distributor, cold start regulator are all original.

There are other products similar to Techron, that may be as good, or better.

I'd be glad to know of them. Until I do, I'll stick with Techron.

If there is some reason why it - and similar products - should not be used in a 960 engine, I'd like to learn of it, so that I don't lead someone to use Techron, when it will damage their engine.

Thanks for your help. I'm much obliged.

Yours faithfully,

spook

I have observed that my wagon does NOT like to be started cold, run a few minutes and put away cold. The next start is often accomplised with a minute or less of much missing?? If the car is warm, I can restart for a short time like moving the car from the yard to the garage with no consequences.

I've never had to deal with a full failure but I also don't understand why this is the case. I've thought maybe it was condensation left in the cumbustion chamber from the cold running??? Or lifters getting in a funny state??

Did you get a big smell of raw gas? I'm guessing not, which would debunk your "expert's" theory.

It'll be interesting to see what other theories you get.
--
'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.

I had the same thing happen to my Mom in New York, 43 degrees and she moved the car to let my sister out. I rebuilt the engine completely less than 3,300 miles before and using Mobil 5w-30 fully sythetic oil. The same thing happened. I t may be caused by carbon, but I think it is caused by hydro lock in the hydrolic valve adjusters. The cure for the problem in my case was take out all the spark plugs and spin the motor over with the fuel rail conn. disconnected. Then install new plugs and it will fire up. It will sound like a thrashing machine untill it warms up, but 17,000 miles later no problems. The reason I had my brother in law dissconnect the fuel injector conn.was to prevent the fuel from contaminating the oil. Thats my take and I'm sticking to it.

Isn't the 960 engine the one that the lifters will pump up and keep the valves open when the engine is started cold and then quickly shut off. Wasn't the cure to keep the gas pedal floored while cranking the engine, thus keeping the injectors off and allowing the lifters to bleed down. I thought I had read this somewhere on the board.

John

That's exactly right John. I remember needing to mash the throttle on an old Dodge PowerWagon that would flood regularly. I didn't think it was significant with fuel infection but it felt good and it worked. I'll ask around concerning the additive, Spook. Thanks for the recommendation. We live on a small island. The highest posted speed limit is 50 and that seems fast considering the road. She doesn't get to stretch her legs much and that big 6 LOVES to stretch. Maybe it's time for a road trip!

two more reasons a fuel injected car can need acellerator depressed to start:

injector(s) leak after shutdown , and causeflooding and no start unless the throttle is opened manualy

The Idle Air control is not functioning, and is closed.