Wow, so many responses. Here is one reply for all:

Bill:

The service manager told me the O2 sensor I bought had a one year warranty (nothing in writing on the sales receipt though?). However, the service manager George is trustworthy. I believe he just didn't have the details that I eventually did. There is quite a bit of business research one has to do to find the truth. Always follow the $ trail. But I wish I did not have to do this all the time.


dewfpo:

I hear THAT! Very upsetting to me too. I don't think I would have minded, had Volvo had the decency to offer all this in a kind of explanatory apology up front and then left the choice to me, rather than misrepresenting the facts - That is worse than anything ... trying to get over on people for the $, and claiming you can only get the OEM part thru Volvo. Sooner or later the truth always comes out and when your caught being dishonest you end up paying for it. As a side note, there is this local Volvo dealership that has quite a few nasty people working for them, most particularly their parts guy, Lenny. Another Volvo dealer told me they gained many of their former customers because of his and other employees nastiness towards customers. How am I personally making them pay? Well, my sister Sue married this Millionaire dude, and they offered my Mom a sizable down payment of a new Volvo. My Mom knows I know more about cars than she or my sis, so she will obey my advice. I told her if she dared to buy anything from Keystone, I would not talk to her again. She knows how that parts guy has treated very rudely me in the past. So, if we get Mom a new Volvo, it will be somewhere else - PERIOD! And as for Volvo's-Ford's nonsense generally, I have told Mom that Lexus is the best you can get on reliability ratings. True, a good bit uglier body than a Volvo, but far more dependable. (Talked to a lady who had to call 1-800- lemon law, because her S60 struts went bad three times under warranty - something is very wrong with Volvo these days).

But, I do like many Volvo cars anyway, and I also enjoy the Brickboard. In fact, I think if Brickboard people ran the Volvo Corp., things would improve greatly.

Interestingly, Consumer Reports, which although they get lots of criticism, has said that the European cars are the most unreliable cars being mfr. I was surprised to read that their opinion was that the American vehicles were just now starting to surpass the European vehicles on reliability. I believe they said the Buick is a very reliable car right now. I wouldn't buy a Buick for other reasons, but it did get my attention. However, of all the European cars, CR felt the Volvos were the best of them, in regards to reliability issues. But the bottom line was that the Japs are way ahead of everyone, and I cannot tell you how many people swear by their cars. I wish that was not the case, but I accept it. Even prejudice publications like Car and Driver, Road and Track, admit to the unbeatable reliability of many Jap vehicles. So, what the heck are they doing differently or what do they know? ... Is it that much of a secret, or is this a matter of the Bell Curve issue - anyone read that eye-opening report ... sure makes you wonder!?


Prater:

A N D your point is!? Why did you have to take a parts issue and rant? Had you asked me, I would had said that Snap-On and many other American tools were A#1 and beat most of the world in design and quality. Hey, keep buying those American GM cars. I'm sure GM will love you for that (laughing all the way to the World Bank).


Alex Z:

I hear that.


Bruce Young:
You said:

"... Who's to say that NGK isn't the OE supplier for that sensor?"

Yes, it is possible that Bendix Siemens had NGK make it for them, and that is another sore issue for me, having to go thru several levels of outsourcing and everyone tacking their share on to a part. It is always the people who are struggling with money that suffer from such realities. But these Regina systems have associated parts called Bendix, Siemens, Rex, etc., with the ECU's made in France, etc. - I guess you know that much. I'm not sure about all the details, but this is all owned by Allied Signal, who in turn owns Honeywell, who owns Siemens, Bendix, Rex, who owns Fram (yes the orange kiss of death oil filters, so denegrated on this board in the past), and many other companies. Perhaps Allied Signal is just another 3M type company, outsourcing everything. Allied Signal also owns all these home plumbing supply mfrs, as well, and probably much more. I suppose that is why I didn't think they would outsource the Tantania Sensor to NGK. Again, Volvo misrepresented that I could only get the Regina sensor I needed thru Volvo. I deeply resent being deceived.

... "An OE 240 caliper will come in a box saying Germany (Ate). An OE front caliper will be from Girling in England. Roulands brake pads from Denmark, etc. Relatively few OE parts will come in a box marked Sweden, if that's what you were expecting on your O2 sensor." ...

I didn't expect the part to be from Sweden. Anything from Northern Europe is ok with me. Jap is okay too. I abhor China, Taiwan, Korean and other Asian Stuff. But I just don't like Volvo telling me their part is the OEM part and you cannot get the OEM part anywhere else, and then discover you can get the OEM elsewhere and for much less $, and with the same warranty. Like I said, I will not be trusting Volvo [dealers] anymore.

..." I've done a bit of online research on this "Titania" sensor that is used on the Regina FI system, and wouldn't be surprised if NGK was the only one making them, since they are used on very few vehicles other than Volvo. Which is probably why Bosch didn't bother" ...

Could be true. I agree about what your saying about that sensor too. I reached much the same conclusion. Tough durable part that works well and rarely fails. Why did mine go caput? An independent tech who was doing some CAT testing for me squeezed the body of the sensor with a pliers and virtually crushed it. I have a personal friendship with the guy and he saved me much $$$ in the past, so it was just too touchy to approach him about his incompetence, but it did piss me off quite a bit - such unnecessary acts from a pro. A friend of mine who is a service at a local Volvo dealership figures the guy either crushed it or zapped it with his high powered oscilloscope by accident. Snap-on confirmed those oscilloscopes have such power if used improperly or the wrong knob is turned.

... "Do you still have the cheaper NGK part number?"

When I called Worldpac under my friends account they used the same number as Volvo. It got me thinking that NGK is calling the shots here and Volvo is using the NGK number as well. Anyway, here is what is on the box : The main # is: 3517394, which Worldpac and Volvo use. The Jap barcode number says 3517394, and 6768544>PELD<. The product number is: 678438-001. The order number is: 37460.

..." I'll need the sensor eventually. But I understand they may well last longer than the Bosch type." ... Bruce Young.

I think it will. We had 162K on ours and it was still sweeping fast from 0.001 thru 0.8 + at idle, and hit 0.9 + on throttle (a tad bit lazy, but stilll good). If you have a tech change your CAT, a word of advice, don't go to him the day before his vacation in a rush to get the old sensor out.


Service Manager:

Only your hairdresser knows for sure, huh! Thanks for making my point about Volvo being truthful and up front. I never asked Volvo to shout out trade design secrets to the whole world, but neither do I expect them to misrepresent the facts when I asked them a straight forward parts question and they know the answer is dishonest ... "I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so ...


Rob

Sorry for the long post.

Q: What if the vehicle manufacturers abandon the parts and repair business and just sold them, and there was independent and separate [OEM] parts and Repair centers for all vehicles. But isn't that what Worldpac has attempted to do?