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Hello,
I'm turning to the pros here for help.
Here's the deal.
I have a well maintained 1990 Volo 740 GL - Only 80,000 miles on her.
Three weeks ago (cold day <10 degrees) I went out and started my car and moved it ten feet and shut it off. I started absolutely fine.
A Half hour later, I went to start it again and it was cranking fine and acting like it was going to catch but never did. I also immediately smelled gas. Figuring the car was flooded. I held the gas pedal to the floor and continued to try to start it to no avail.
Had it towed to a local shop and they said it was simply flooded and they changed the oil, cleaned the plugs and said it started fine.
I picked it up and took it home. The next morning (very cold again) It wouldn't start...again, immediately smelled gas...try to clear it by holding down the gas pedal and again...no start. (cost with tow - $180)
Had it towed again to another local shop...this guy also changed the oil cleaned the plugs and he disconnected the cold start injector thinking that it was spraying in too much fuel. Figuring it was a cold start flooding problem. (cost with tow - $260)
I picked it up the next morning and it started fine and ran great as it always has.
Fast forward 3 weeks and I went out again on a cold morning. Started the car up just fine...moved it about 10 feet and shut it off and went out a half hour later to start it and SAME THING - Immediate smell of gas and NO Start.
This time I had it towed all the way to a Volvo Dealer who started that the connection to the Radio Suppresion Relay was bad and had to be rewired. So at the cost of $485...I had that done. The Service Advisor said that this should totally take car of the problem.
I picked up the car and it started right up. Drove it to the store a block away...ran in for just a second...came out and it wouldn't start!
I again...immediatelt smelled gas. I held the gas pedal down and luckily it did catch and fire right up...Drove perfect...no smoke...no loss of power. Nice Purring sound.
Drove it around for about ten miles and took it back to the dealership to have them look it over and they were closed.
I had shut the car off...I went to start it and it fired right up.
So...it seems that for some reason that if the car is ran for just a very short time and then shut off and tried to restart...
it immediately floods itself.
Does anyone have ANY IDEA why that might be happening? - I've got close to $1,000 spent on repairs and no closer to fixing the problem.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
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If it was mine, and exhibiting problems at cold start or re-start, I would check the resistance reading of the ECU coolant temp sensor, and check it's wiring connector for corrosion and proper contact tension. Then if it did not start again, check the resistance at ECU terminal #13 to ground , to see what temp the ECU 'thinks' the engine is. Could be an intermittent connection, wiring problem or blinky sensor causing a high resistance and making the ECU think the engine is at -30F or so, when it is partially warmed up, and then dumping way too much fuel.
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Gary Gilliam Sumerduck VA, '94 940 Regina 170k '86 240 198k plus three 140's in the past
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Correct me if I'm wrong on this guys, but didn't holding the gas pedal (throttle) down all the way to clear a flooded condition go away when carbuerators did?
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Andy in St. Paul - '91 745 218K mi, '91 745 210K, '90 744 183K, all Rex-Regina - past 240s
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If your car has the Regina FI, as Andy suggests, it may have somehow missed a TSB from 1990, regarding Cold Start Problems. Your dealer should be able look it up (it's from January 1990, Group 23, No. 135), but here's a summary---
"Below 23°F (—5°C) cold start difficulties...rich fuel mixture during cold start crank and warm-up"
Before chasing this down, you can tell if this TSP has been applied (or not) by checking the wires at the CS Injector plug.
Peel back the rubber boot.
If the 2 connected wires are Gray-Black and Blue-Green, the TSP has NOT been applied.
If the wires are Gray-Black and any other color (with Blue-Green cut off and taped back -- or removed --) the TSB HAS BEEN applied.
NOTE: This rewiring will cause a permanent 3-2-1 OBD code, but no CE Light.
Background: The CSI has voltage is applied from the Radio Suppression Relay, like the regular injectors do. And is controlled on the ground side by the ECU, based on temperature.
The TSB changes the CSI's voltage source to an auxilliary terminal on the starter solenoid. So the CSI now gets activated only during cold cranking, rather than as soon as the Key is turned on for that 1-2 second pump buzz — and all during warm-up, till warmed above the "cold start" temp criteria.
This is all inference on my part, as the TSB offers no detailed explanation.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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I'm presuming your 1990 is not a turbo and therefore very likely has the Rex-Regina engine management system (square ignition coil is the easy identifier).
The three main suspects in my mind are the crank position sensor the fuel relay and the radio suppression relay. Read about each of these in the 700/900 FAQ under SELECT LINK at the top right of this page.
I'll bet you that grand that your problem is the crank position sensor.
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Andy in St. Paul - '91 745 213K mi, '91 745 210K, '90 744 183K, all Rex-Regina - past 240s
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I would tend to agree that neither the fuel pump relay or radio suppression relay are the probable cause, as there is appearantly PLENTY of fuel being delivered to the injector rail (good pump relay), and plenty of fuel being injected into the cylinders (good radio suppression relay).
The crank position sensor is a possibility, however, if the brain is working right, the fuel pump should be inhibited after the initial 1-2 second "ignition on" priming if there no ignition pulse sensed. It might be that the brain is seeing the crank position pulses and so it's energizing the pump circuit, but for some other reason the spark is not reaching the spark plugs. I would want to open up the distributor cap and make sure everything is clean and dry inside there, plus, take the coil pack apart (low tech task) and clean the internal connections and make sure they are connecting snugly, and clean all the mating surfaces including the mounting to the car's strut tower. These steps cost $0.00 to perform. Bad continity within the coil pack due to dirt and oxydation is common on the Regina's. My wife's car had that very problem a few years back, and I've heard others having the same problem since then.
Another slim possibity may be the cold start injector is leaking, but why would it only be sometimes? Also, there was a factory recall on that model to burn a cold-start revision into the brain, but if it has been working OK for 16 years then it's doubtful that that is the problem.
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Chris - 1990 740, 1973 1800ES (Non-running), 1993 Dodge Dakota (Still has a little paint left on it)
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Chris's thoughts are very good ones. I'm guessing the problem is not in the ignition system itself (coil, distributor, ignition wires, spark plugs) since you indicates the car runs well when it is running at all.
The Regina coil rejuvination really is easy and costs nothing so I suggest you do try that. It isn't covered in the FAQ so I will describe it here from memory of having done a few.
Locate the coil under the hood on the driver's side(in North America)strut tower. It is a regtangular steel box that looks something like a car stereo amplifier.
Remove the coil to distributor ignition wire from the coil. It is held in place by a plastic clip.
Remove the two wire harnesses that plug into the side of the coil.
Unbolt the coil from its bracket (two 10mm bolts, I think).
Remove the two screws in opposite corners of the steel "box". These have torx heads (#25, I think). That is the closest thing to a special tool you need for this job and a set of torx bits in various sizes can be had for a few dollars.
Now the top and bottom of the coil box can be pulled apart. Where the metal post on one half slides between two metal "springs" on the other half is obvious and any corrosion there should be sanded off. I believe a little dielectric grease is also a good idea here to prevent future corrosion.
I was not certain if good contact between the two halves of the box and where the box attaches to its bracket were important (maybe someone else can confirm or deny) so I cleaned up those contact points with sandpaper too.
Reassembly and replacement are the reverse of above. If you take your time, you can have this done in about a half hour.
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Andy in St. Paul - '91 745 218K mi, '91 745 210K, '90 744 183K, all Rex-Regina - past 240s
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