I've got alot of valuable tips on trying to get good looking 89 240 running. Thanks, but it's still not running. It did for awhile on the 9/3, but it's failed again. I bought the car about 1 month ago and have been troubleshooting why it won't run. I only paid $250 for the car, so if I get too frustrated with troubleshooting, I'm thinking about using it for parts to restore my 87 240 which runs like a top.

Got out my Bentley service manual, and it looks like the igition and fuel injection on the 89 are really the only components that wouldn't work on the 87. Engine, tranny, front/rear end, body, etc. seem to be identical. Is there anything else that I might be missing that wouldn't swap out. Or, am I crazy for considering this? Steve

As you suggest mostly ignition and fuel injection systems are different. However, it seems a little early to throw in the towel and declare the 89 a parts car.

Is the body in good condition with no damage and little or no rust? If that is the case I would pursue getting it running unless the task just does not appeal to you or you have more important things to do with your time.

All things considered I would guess that restoring your 87 using the parts from the 89 will take way longer than actually getting the 89 road ready.

Randy

Well I am short on time, but yes the car on a scale of 1 to 10 would be in my opinion about an 8. Of course that's if it not running is not factored in. I haven't thrown in the towel, because I agree that there's still hope, and seeing it on the road again, would bring great joy. I am a bit discouraged, as I found that it has the pink labeled ECU ending in 516, and I get no codes at all when self diagnosing the LH system. It may need the ECU replaced. No plans yet to give up. Not with the good tips I get here. - Steve

By no codes at all, do you mean no 111 either? That is far more often caused by a lack of power to the ECU (fuel injection relay, 25A fuse) than a dead ECU itself. Have you done any circuit tracing? Disregard that suggestion about a "radio suppression relay" it is just a red herring or brain fart. Everybody wants to help; sometimes that in itself can lead to frustration. There are thousands of surviving 561 ECUs with the old pink labels still providing everyday transportation. But you would be doing well to get a spare.

I already am planning on getting that spare. That's right no 1-1-1 code. I get codes in socket 6 for the ignition and an LED light, but nothing in 2 for the LH system. I kinda thought the problem was w/the injection system, but w/out codes, I'm left to test at the ECU itself, which I haven't had time to do. The 25A fuse is good. I checked the main relay for LH system under the glove box - that is the one you're talking about right? What I did was swap it with the one in my 87. They looked the same even though the 87 uses LH2.2. The 87 ran fine with the 89 relay, so I'm thinking that it's good. I plan to check the timing. I'm getting an odd smell, like to lean of fuel, when cranking. Thought that might be timing. I've learned that the EZ116 timing can't be adjusted, so it's remove cover, check marks alignment and replace . . . right? In reading about some of the no start problems others are having, it could be a challenging troubleshoot. - Steve

I get codes in socket 6 for the ignition and an LED light, but nothing in 2 for the LH system.

That suggests the 25A fuse circuit is OK, since it also is the main power source for the ICU.

The 25A to ECU power comes in on a red wire at ECU pin 4.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Thank you. I tested that today; you are amazing.

...you are too kind. Amazing is quite a stretch. Hard of thinking would be more like it.

I'm still pondering that 25A fuse circuit, recalling how it once caused a buzzing main relay on an 83 or 84 LH. Fuse circuit passed just enough current to barely "pick" the relay when key was turned on, but couldn't support the load (as you noted) when the contacts close, causing the relay to pick-drop-pick-drop etc. and making a nice buzzing sound.

That was caused not by the fuse itself, but the corroded/broken wire fuse wire strands at battery + terminal. Now I'm wondering if something like that may be happening here — where there is enough currrent to satisfy the EZK's electronics and light the wimpy LED, but not enough to budge the bulkier Main relay—and thus no power to the LH ECU.

Not being much with electronics, I don't know if this theory holds any water, but I'd sleep better if Steve could tell us if he feels and hears that Main relay pull in with a solid click when he turns the key on. I'll respond to his latest post and direct him to this one, hoping to narrow things down a bit.

(Let us know Steve, OK?)

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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Ok, had a chance to check the main relay. It clicked when ignition was turned on. In terms of it being solid, well I'm not sure. My ears are shot, so I had my wife listen. She thought that it sounded and felt a bit whimpy, but that's probably subjective It did click however, every time the ignition was turned on. There was not buzzing that could be heard or felt. I also examined the 25A connection at the battery. It looks fine. One thing that did happen, my battery was dead when I went out to check the above items. I just bought it and it was cranking fine, a couple of days ago. Not sure what caused that, but I'm looking into it. It's fully charge now. With the relay apparently o.k. any thoughts on how to proceed. BC suggested checking the crank position sensor. My Bently manual calls this . . . I think, the Engine cranking signal. I'll take a look at that tomorrow. Another note, last weekend when I did get it running for a short period, the black exhaust appeared to indicate very rich burning fuel.

Steve

>The 25A fuse is good.

They always are. Always. Nothing is known to take them out aside from a tech's mistake. But the fuseholder and its wiring is rife with trouble, causing more problems than its $2 value would ever suggest. You can't just check the voltage at the relay pin 30 and verify it, you have to do it in operation, under load so to speak. Not every electrical problem is solved by parts swapping. There are a lot of grungy connections to blame instead.

Don't worry about checking the timing, unless you have a light and it is handy - that is an excellent way to know spark is at least being produced. The lack of any codes at your fuel ECU is the first mystery you want to solve. Solve that and you're most likely home.

The reason I say the "radio suppression relay" is a red herring is that no 240 was ever equipped with one. If you find it doesn't have any spark either, BC's suggestion about the CPS should be checked out.

I often wonder how many 240's were towed to their final resting place for only the lack of a good fuseholder under the hood.

Is the black 40A relay under the hood of late 240s for the auxillary fan? If so, my mistake. It appears to be the same unit as an RSR, of which some 740s have two, one for injectors, one for fan.

Thanks for the clarification. At this point, and w/my lack of experience in such matters as "no start's" in 89 Volvo's, I'm accepting any suggestions.
Steve

Since the 89 doesn't run, I opted to test under a load by putting the 89 relay in the 87. Don't know if that would be a valid test, but thought it worth a shot. For the fuse then: check continuity and if there is a problem, get a new fuse holder or fix break? It could possibly be that easy . . . could it? Looking into BC's suggestion.

Steve (3-122's, 145, 4-240's)

Steve,
Sorensonson-jr's "load testing" comment got me thinking about an incident where that 25A circuit (fuse OK but wire degraded at battery+ terminal) would only pass a small fraction of the required current—easily showing as +12V on a meter at Fuel relay 30, but not enough to handle a "load".

You may not be aware that there are two relays inside that white plastic cover. The Fuel relay of course, but before that can work the Main relay must energize in order to power the ECU and get things started (including the OBD test LED).

For more on this, see my recent response to Sorenson-Jr, where I posed this weak current possibility, and how you can easily check it out.

--
Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

By under load I mean the entire circuit, not just the relay. But if there is any red herring here it is mine, as lucid is correct to point out your ignition diagnostics would not work without a good circuit through the fuse. The idea of testing something under load is to see if it will carry the current it is supposed to. If you merely check continuity or the presence of voltage without the circuit fully in use, you might in many circumstances conclude it is OK when it can't support the current actually needed by the load. Still, it is better than nothing.

I am probably too optimistic your ECU is not the trouble, but lucid's comment above lessens the chances for it. I checked on my 90 sedan; he is right, if I pull the blade fuse neither diagnostic works. There is yet a chance the wire to the diag box is corroded up there where it enters the box. That is exposed somewhat to weather. You can pull the plug off the bottom and look at it.

Ok! your comments about testing under load are understood - Thanks. So with me taking the 89 relay and putting it in the 87 and running it, that's only telling me that the relay and the 87's circuit are sound. I see . . . I think! So now, I need to test the circuit on the 89 that handles the 25 A and relay, for soundness by visually inspecting connections and listening. I'll follow lucid's advice and get back. Steve

The 89 sounds much too nice to be a parts car, especially if it seemed to run OK when you did have it running. How many miles are on it ?

Did you check the radio interference suppression relay? This is a common cause of intermittent or non running, and easy and inexpensive to fix.

I've heard other talk about that, I'll check it out. The Black Beauty has 180,000. By far the lowest miles of any of the others I've owned. Can't help but think there alot left in her. - Steve

One more SWAG - since my "I Have One" knowledge on 240s ends in the 1988.

The 1989 has, I believe, a crank position sensor, used to modify the spark advance as needed. From other BB posts, it seems that the wiring to that item is in a tough enviroment - running down between the block and the firewall.

Have a look at the connection and have a replacement sensor handy, too.

Good Luck on the car, "the (insert name) will ride again".

Bob

:>)

I've been reading up on the CPS as a possiblity. Due to the positioning, I was hoping the solve before I got that far, but guess I'd better dive in a check it as well. Thanks - Steve