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My '68's always had a battery killing issue(sit for more than a couple days and it'll be dead or close), and a charge light being on until I rev it up a bit on the initial start-up...
Anyway, just recently got around to hooking up a voltmeter to the battery with the car on...
My findings as of today while looking at it again are:
-Depending on idle speed(800rpm or so) the car is NOT charging the battery at all, basically sitting around 12.2V, which is what it was with the car off. The charge light comes on if I let the car idle any lower than that(didn't check voltage at the lower idle though). If I raise the idle speed to around 1000-1100rpm, it goes to about 13V... If I rev the engine up a bit more, it'll plateau at 13.12Vish...
All of which is abnormal, I know.
Is there something I should check before I toss on the alternator from my old wagon? That one I needed to rev up a bit sometimes before it would properly work, but it at least did from what I can tell.
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Kyle - 142, 145, and 244! - Oregon Volvo Tuners?
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Well, this past week the amp light has stayed on a little longer when I first start up the car, needing to be revved up to closer to 3000 before it turns off, rather than the 2000-ish that it used to turn off at... Then today, it didn't turn off. And then it turned off, but turned back on, and is now always on. I checked the voltage, a lovely 12.2-ish.
I'm going to swap out the alternator as when I hit the alternator with a big screwdriver it made the voltage jump around crazily. Which would definitely point towards the alternator.
We'll see what happens!
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Kyle - 142, 145, and 244! - Oregon Volvo Tuners?
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Symptoms like yours are common with ITB racecars. The current Bosch rebuilds are not very good. Usually its a broken wire to the diodes or maybe the brushes. Usually its pretty easy to resolder a broken wire but the just breaks again from all the vibration of having the altranator bolted solidly to the block. I have a Chevy (Delco) on one of my race cars and it has been trouble free.
Charlie
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-Edit-
Looks like I already gave you all this info a while back. Still, it stands investigating what I've suggested. At least let us know
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This was likely mentioned long ago, but have you replaced your Voltage regulator and confirmed that you have the right type for your alternator (Bosch vs. SEV)?
The problems you describe remind me of my first and only non-volvo car - a 1978 Datsun F10 Coupe(Crap). I went through batteries and two alternators before I figured out that the voltage regulator (also replaced) was not grounded properly. As soon as I got it cleaned and bolted back on, my amp light vanished and I never had that problem again. I had *plenty* of other problems with that car...
Back in 1997, my 72 145 had some charging issues which turned out to be worn brushes in the alternator itself. My mechanic (at the time) made me some new ones for me as they were no longer available (aparrently this is very easy as brushes are jusy chunks of graphite with little springs on them). The Bosch unit that I salvaged from a 75 245 also had a charging problem that I believe was due to degraded windings. It already had new brushes (NOS from eBay) and bad winding was the remaining possibility. I ended up buying a *new* 1975-compatible replacement on eBay for $80.00 and have not had a problem since.
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So... Did you guys read the last couple posts? Anywho, yesterday morning the car was dead. Last night I jumped it, then turned it on and held it at about 2000rpm for about a half an hour, which means it was running at about 13.1-13.2V. Disconnected the battery and watched it go from 12.55ish down to 12.48ish before I headed inside. Great, crappy battery. This morning, 12.25V at the battery... Barely got it to start. Went to work, bought a new battery, with more 200 more CCA for the exact same size. That last battery was crap, but should've lasted longer. In a different car anyway, my 142 eats batteries for breakfast... :) This is the third in 4 years. Two years per battery, meh.
Anywho, so what am I checking now? Could that contraption on the back of the alternator be the voltage regulator? Can I just take it off and stick the thick red wire directly to the alternator? I think there may be another wire or two on that post on the alternator...
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Kyle - 142, 145, and 244! - Oregon Volvo Tuners?
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First think I would check the brushes, which should come out the back on an assy. which mounts with 2 screws and has the wires coming out which go to the VR (talking Bosch here).
If you have a seperate VR on the fender, you could try jumping it, but you better know what you are doing as you could make some big sparks and maybe some burnt wires if you connect it wrong. Basically what you want to do is apply 12v to the field terminal of the alternator. That should cause it to go to full output, around 17volts, so you really don't want that on too long like that.
If I were you, I'd get a used alternator from a 240 and put it on. The VR is built in and at least you would know that it was working.
--
744 & 745 GLE's (IPD a-sbars)16v M46, 245 SE(IPD a-sbars) auto, 242Ti M46(IPD springs and bars), 745GL 8v auto
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Bridge the regulator & see if it does any better. If it doesn't help, replace the alternator.
This is the third in 4 years. Two years per battery, meh.
You should be able to get them replaced under warranty.
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I got a warranty replacement for the first one. They made me pay for the months that I'd already used, or some BS, and then gave me a no name refurbished battery. That just died, so I bought a brand new AC Delco battery for much cheaper through my work that has over a hundred more CA than the previous no name one. Same size and everything.
Thanks for the tips guys, I wish I had more motivation to work on it. Today I was lazy feeling after this weekend's earlier work, and now I'm going to be working during the day on cars for work... After helping other people with their cars on friday night and saturday during the day, my distributor broke a spring(I assume) and now that's my other pain in the ass, other than the charging system. Got all of my new tires on though, as well as the front sway, in time for the nasty winds and rains we're having right now...
If only I could use the wipers, headlights and fan at the same time without killing the battery... I have enough trouble with the windows fogging up as it is.
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Kyle - 142, 145, and 244! - Oregon Volvo Tuners?
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Here's a crazy thought that I don't think anyone mentioned...
Have you checked the brushes on your alternator? The brushes on my 145 were ground down to nothing leaving me with no electricty and a dead battery. A local mechanic made me some new brushes and I was happily on my way.
Also, what sort of alternator is this - SEV/Marchal or a Bosch Unit?
Unless you have a newer alternator, your voltage regulator ought to be on the fender, not the back of the alternator. Even the 1st year of the 240 (1975) has an external voltage regulator so you probably have one. You're probabaly looking at the capacitor or the plate that's covering the brushes. The red wire ought to be coming off a semi-circular black plate with two bolts on it. The wires should run up to a oversized relay-looking thing on the fender. Looks for DF, B+ and D- embossed on the metal of the alternator and at the connectors on the voltage regulator
Overall, your problem sounds exactly like the issue I have with my first car (and only non-volvo I've ever owned). My 1977 Datsun F10 Coupe (remember those?) had a very similar symptoms. Even with a brand-new alternator and voltage regulator, I couldn't keep the battery charged. The engine barely ran at full-idle and all-but died with any electrical system active. The car ran so badly that the catalytic convertor was glowing orange...
This problem made me insane for weeks, before I finally and quite accidently figured out that the votage regulator was not properly grounded. Cleaning up the connection and really getting the thing screwed down to the fender fixed everything.
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1967 P220 (My every-other-daily driver...), 1972 145S (1993-1997), 1973 1800ES (2006-Present), 1977 245 DL (1993-1999), 1983 245 (1998-2001), 1986 745 GLE (1997-2005), 1990 745 GL (2003-4), 1995 945 (2005-Present)....
What's a "Sedan"???
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If the belt is tight enough, and the connections are good you might see
about the voltage regulator.
Battery voltage is usually 12.6 while NOT being charged so either the meter is
reading low or your battery is in bad shape. Should charge to 13.5 volts or
more at something slightly above idle. Unless you spend a LOT of time idling
a low voltage at idle is not too bad.
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George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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Yeah, it just died on me after driving around for a while yesterday though. Came back out to start it less than 10 mintues later and it wouldn't turn over much. I was using the heater and headlights and wipers, which brings the charge down to 12.2 or so with the engine running, so it wasn't charging then.
About it being 12.6 normally, well, I wouldn't call the battery fully charged right now, for one thing, and then I might have an electrical drain somewhere still too.
Thanks for the responses guys, I'll see what I can find.
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Kyle - 142, 145, and 244! - Oregon Volvo Tuners?
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Kyle,
Have you checked the output from the back of the alternator to make sure you don't have a voltage drop in the connections to the battery or a bad alternator ground?
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You need to "full field" the alternator by disconnecting the field wire from the voltage regulator and applying battery voltage to the alternator side of the circuit. This will force the alternator to produce its maximum output and removes the voltage regulator from the equation.
Before you even do that... with the engine stopped, try to rotate the alternator fan by firmly pushing on one of the blades with your thumb. If it turns (without turning the engine too) then the belt is too loose to transmit power into the alternator. It must pass this test first. Recheck voltage if you had to tighten or replace the belt as it may cure your charging problem.
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It would check the battery first,then the belt. If both ok then check the wiring on the positive [fat red] side of the of alt & the ground connection from engine to body. I often put a direct to engine ground to eliminate any voltage drop between them. To me it's cheap insurance against weird untraceable faults. To check the voltage drop in the wires put voltmeter test leads between say bat. & & plus side of alt. with the engine running. If more than .1 volt reading the connection or wire is bad. You can test all other wiring the same way. If all are ok then full field the alt, bypassing the reg. Don't forget to check the reg. ground at the fender. Good luck! I know you'll tell us the outcome as your loquaciousness is well documented.
Mike M. now with Greentoad II!
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Well documented, yes, but sadly on the brickboard only most of the time, which means, good luck ever seeing it again! =D
Anywho, checked the battery voltage again, and as I assumed, it's good, with 12.5 volts now after a better "charge" from not using the fan and wipers as much when driving home last night. Cranked her up, and found the same approximate 12.8-13.2V range depending on engine speed. Checking voltage at the big red and the ground wire on the alternator itself gave me approximately one more tenth of a volt than at the battery, but nothing major.
I then tightened the belt as suggested, and that made no difference other than make me worry greatly for my poor alternator and water pump's bearings.
Now, next step is bypasing the regulator you say? Is the regulator the thing that's attached to the rear of the alternator that the larger red wire comes off of? So, would I take apart that connection and reconnect JUST the wires to that terminal on the alternator and check again?
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Kyle - 142, 145, and 244! - Oregon Volvo Tuners?
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12.5V to 13.2V, while not great, is not completely unacceptable charging for an old alternator. The good news is that definitely shows that the alternator IS charging your battery.
At this point, I think I would start looking for excess drain on the battery. To do this, disconnect the battery altogether and check the voltage at the terminals. Then hook the battery up, and check the voltage without the car running: put your red probe on the positive connection (not terminal) and use some ground other than the negative portion of the battery. If the voltage is significantly lower, then you've got a drain on the battery somewhere. Check glove box lights, trunk lights, etc.
--
74 164E auto -- looking to convert to manual M410
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O come on Kyle. You really want me to forsake my Ludditeness & figure out how to post pictures on this godforaken infernal machine. I just thought of something else related to your problem tho'. I had problems with inadequate voltage due to reg's that were aftermarket;ie ones designed for a mopar of 60's vintage which seemed to be the universal replacement for the SEV-MARCHAL one. Replaced it with a direct from dealer replacement & it solved the problem. Of course this won't work if you have a Bosch reg. in which case I'd get the adjustable one from IPD. The voltage should be around 14.5 most of the time above 1500 rpm.
Mike M.
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I had the same problem on my '69 142 with Bosch alternator w integrated VR.
Found and corrected the following issues:
Large bolt holding the alternator to the enginge block had sheared. (I was wondering what that clunk was on the freeway)
Lead from one side of one of the diodes had broken off, resoldered it.
Brushes where down to nubs, got a pair from a local alternator shop who had them in a pile of discontinued items.
I you cant find the brushes anywhere (you cant, Bosch wants to sell new alternators, not brushes) you can get a pair that is slightly larger and sand them down with emory cloth or fine sand paper. The brushes are basicly large peices of pencil lead (the modern pencils, not the lead ones).
They are soft and will wear over time by design.
BTW, I heard someone talking once about retrofitting a Delco alternator to the B20. Anyone else heard of this, or was it just a bad dream?
Also when the belts off, give the alternator pully a good spin, Good bearings will run smooth but appear give some resistance. if it spinns fast but sounds like a skateboard, its time for the bearings to go.
Cheers,
Dave.
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