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My 88 DL suddenly refused to start three weeks ago. It cranks over and over, but no start.Below is what I have done or learned since then:
1. I installed a new timing belt yesterday
2. I installed new dist.cap, coil, rotor, plugs and wires
3. When I pull a plug from the head after cranking the engine, it is wet and smells like gas
4. Spraying starting fluid in the intake hose makes no change
5. When the key is turned to the on position, the fuel relay clicks, then it clicks a second time as the key is further turned to crank the engine
6. When I jump fuse #6 left side to fuse #4 left side, I hear the main pump run
7. I installed a new 25 amp fuse under the hood and the wire looks good as well as where it is attached to the battery
8. A spare plug attached to a wire and held close to manifold produces a yellow spark when engine is cranked
9. All ground wires under the hood were in good, tight condition.
10. Really weird: yesterday when the key was in the on position but not cranking the engine, I heard a sound from the passenger floor area that sounded just like ripping fabric. It was a constant sound that lasted for the five or six seconds that I had the key in this position before I turned it off. I tried this again today but could not get the sound to repeat. Could this be from the ECU?
I'm sorry for the long post, but I didn't want to leave anything out, and I figured each part might be4 relevant. I'm good at removing and replacing parts, but not great at diagnosing these kinds of problems. Any other ideas would be welcomed.
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I finally got some free time to tinker with it some more and test some of your ideas. Here's what I found out:
1. The small hose on the front of the FPR is dry, so the FPR is not leaky.
2. When I jumpered the fuel relay connector with the three-legged jumper, the car still does not start.
3. I checked the poewr wire to the intank pump, and it receives power when the engine is cranked.
4. I placed a hose into the fuel tank through the filler tube and heard the intank pump runninig each time the engine was cranked.
5. The connector on the AMM is tight and secure.
6. The plugs were wet and had bits of carbon stuck to them (probably washed off cylinder walls by unburnt gas)but looked otherwise fine.
Questions I'm left with:
1. Could leaky injectors be the culprit? I've heard of people having to replace injector seals, which I have never done on this car.
2. Is a running prepump guaranteed to be working correctly? I hear it working, but is it possible for it to run but not do its job completely?
These are the only possibilities I could think of. I would welcome all new ideas. Thanks, Brickboarders!
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I'm not exactly sure what the problem was. I did everything that was suggested in this thread, with Starkie's oil trick at the end. As I was double checking the fuse panel one last time, I noticed that several of the fuses looked old and worn, and that the sides where they contact their keepers looked a little oxidized. So, since I was out of all other ideas, I thought it wouldn't hurt to twist each one in place to try and establish good contacts in case there was a problem in there. I turned the key and she fired right up! (with a lot of smoke coming from the tailpipe as the oil I poured in was burned). Thanks to all who responded! I now need to go back and give several thumbs up to you! It's great to have my vehicle with a trailer hitch back in service.
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After getting the '88 244 to start last night and run for a good fifteen minutes before shutting it off, I find myself in the same predicament today as four weeks ago. The engine cranks and turns over, but will not start. I will follow the most recent advice of cleaning all fuse contacts with wet/dry sandpaper and cross my fingers that the problem lies there. Otherwise, I'm at a loss for what is keeping it from starting and am getting a little tired of putting new unnecessary parts on it. I still haven't replaced the Hall effect sensor or either of the fuel pumps, but it gets a spark and I have heard both pumps make sounds with the key on. Any new ideas? Thanks in advance!
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Hooray Boatbuilder,
I've found it's good practice to remove all fuses once a year and clean the fuse contacts back to bright metal with fine (#200 - 800) wet/dry abrasive cloth, as well as cleaning oxidation off both ends of each fuse by pushing end of fuse into the w/d and gently twirling the fuse 'til clean.
I wish I could find fuses w a brass alloy rather than the alum/lead/potmetal? alloy, as the "brass" doesn't corrode and get brittle as quickly as the "alum" fuses. Same wish to find brass crimp connectors rather than alum which aren't as strong and corrode quicker. Any one know a source for brass?
Thanks for all the good posts on this thread. I have to troubleshoot my '89 245 w KZ ign. Something was draining the battery down from fully charged new battery to too low to supply ignition voltage within about 2 hrs of hiway driving. I'll test, then post details and request for help later if needed.
Steve
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I too am having the same problem with my '88 245 w/194K, but my no-start is intermittent NOT constance.
My FPR is within spec. as is the ECT sensor.
One thing I did find and fix was the TPS. The throttle switch was at the edge of proper adjustment, sometimes it would make contact at the idle stop, sometime not. Thought that was the fix but a few days later, no start, flooded plugs again.
Now I just discovered that my pre-pump is not working. Vapor lock ??
New pump is on the way. I will report back if it fixes the no-start/ lousy fuel mileage condition.
roll on
Peter in PA
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I had the same problem on my '88 244GL. A bad intank pump can lead to lower fuel pressure and the gas just dribbles out of the injectors. It doesn't spray and therefore condenses and runs down the intake into the cylinder and floods it.
Can you do a fuel pressure test? If you need help I have the Volvo green manuals and I live in Emmaus. Give me a shout. Even just to chat.
Aaron
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I wouldn't sweat the Spark. You are getting gas and some spark. So It sounds like the ECU is satisfied.
I'm leaning toward Too much gas.
Did you pull off the front hose on the Fuel Pressure Regulator and look for gas?
That hose should be dry.
Take the plugs out and let them and the cylinders dry. While waiting:
Pull that small hose from the Regulator to the Intake Manifold off on the Intake side. Plug that nipple. put the plugs back in and try to Start it.
Taking that hose off will keep a leaky Regulator from dumping fuel into the Intake.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html
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Sounds like an abundance of fuel in the cylinders. With what you have done I would approach it like this.
Double check the position of the crank, cam and rotor when the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke.
Disconnect the power at each fuel injector. Remove the plug and let the fuel evaporate. Squirt two tablespoons of motor oil into each cylinder and crank the engine (15 or 20 seconds). This will distribute the oil and help rid the cylinders of the accumulated fuel. Let it sit for a few minutes and then crank the engine again. Let it sit again and then give each cylinder another tablespoon of motor oil followed by a short time of cranking the engine over.
Reinstall the dry plugs. Crank the engine over for 15 or 20 seconds. Reattach the injector connectors and try to start the engine.
If it starts let it run long enough to reach operating temperature before turning it off.
If it doesn't start in normal time stop trying and remove the plugs to see if they are covered in gas.
The oil and cranking routine will undoubtedly raise the compression from what it was before and most assuredly more than when the fuel was flooding the cylinders. If it starts after this oil induced increased compression you should run a compression test and see just what compression it has.
I am not good on the ignition side of the formula but I would sure want to see a blue/white spark trying to ignite the fuel.
Randy
Good luck,
Randy
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I don't think the plugs should be wet with gas. What color are the plugs ? Any chance the engine is flooding ? Have you checked the Fuel Pressure Regulator ?
If the FPR is good and the plugs are really wet, take them out and dry them off using a gas stove or a propane torch. When they are good and hot (much too hot to touch) put them in and see what happens.
Greg
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You certainly have covered the possibilties..... spark, fuel, compression. But do you really have compression? Your cam must be turning or there would be no timing pulses to trigger ignition and spark at the plugs, nor would there be fuel flowing. Could it be that the timing belt has lost some teeth and timing is way off?
Cannot comment about the fart from the passenger side, was anyone sitting there at the time?
--
David Hunter
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Honestly, I was hoping to find a failed timing belt when I opened it up yesterday. That would have been an easy explanation to this mess! Instead, the timing belt was in good shape and there was no indication that it had slipped, as all of the marks lined up. I went ahead and replaced the timing belt while I had it open.
I have seen in other threads that a blue spark is preferred, but I have also seen a differing opinion stated that a yellow/orange spark from a plug is also fine. Does spark color really matter? Besides, I have replaced just about everything in the ignition system except for the Hall effect sensor and the ECU.
What really confuses me is the fact that it started and drove fine on Sunday morning (1.7 miles, a short trip) but wouldn't start just two hours later. In that time, weather conditions were unchanged, so no rain or other factors are suspect.
This does remind me of an incident with a 740 we had four years ago that refused to start. After checking everything under the sun, I finally gave up and put it in the shop. After much searching and testing (and $600 later), the mechanic found a wire leading to the in-tank pump that had been rubbed bare against the trunk floor from the luggage we had hauled on a recent vacation. I don't think that is the problem now since the plugs are getting fuel on them, but it does point to a single wire as a possibility, which I hate to admit. Are there any other possibilities before I start trying to trace wires all over this car?
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Not sure is the same is try on an 88 but I think it is. There are two poles on that relay and jumping the pumps only sends power to just one of those. The other side of the relay sends power to the AMM and if the AMM does not have power your car will not start. I have the dang merit badge by the way from my 86 model.
If you don't have a known good relay try this, take a couple of 14 gauge wires three to four inches long and crimp them together in a yellow female spade lug. Crimp a female lug on each the two other ends. Pull fuse 4 and your relay out, then insert the double crimp lug into the Red wire (30) in the relay socket. Put the other two ends in 87-1 (orange brown) and 87-2 (Yellow Red). I have a switch wired in so you can turn the connections on and off like a relay.
When you push fuse four back in the fuel pumps will be humming away, give the key a turn and see if she fires up. If yes get a new relay, if no it was worth a shot.
Good Luck,
Paul
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Thanks for the quick replies! I'll try the suggested steps and post back with the results. It would be great if a faulty FPR was the culprit- easy to replace. However, the one that's on it is only two years old. Is it unheard of for one to die in two years?
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Have you by chance taken the AMM connector loose recently? Take the negative lead off the battery and make sure the connector is firmly plugged in and locked in place. A loose AMM connector will also cause your problem, and yes got that merit badge also. Connect your battery lead back up and then try the relay jumper if the still does not start.
Based on your fabric ripping comment from the passenger side, I still suspect the fuel pump relay and the pole that sends power to the AMM.
Never hurts to check out the connector under the hood however.
Good Luck,
Paul
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Below is an excerpt from a post on the 3-legged jumper Paul suggested.
Note that the teminal ends have to be flat (male, not female) ends so they will plug into the relay socket
================>
For a complete diagnostic relay bypass, a 3-legged jumper having flat male terminals is needed—and plugged into the relay harness socket, as follows:
Leg 1 from socket terminal 30 (heavy Red wire, fused battery +12V)
Leg 2 to socket 87-1 (or 87 for K-jet)
• Yellow-Red wire (to K-jet pumps)
• Orange, Brown wires (LH 2.2 AMM etc.)<=== Your '88
• Red-Black wires (LH 2.4 MM etc.)
Leg 3 to socket 87-2 (87b for K-jet)
• Blue wire (K-jet Lambda sytem)
• Yellow-Red (LH 2.2 pumps)<=================Your '88
• Yellow-Red (LH 2.4 pumps, O2 heater)
As with other jumpering schemes, the pumps run immediately. For more than a quick test, a control switch can be wired into the common leg connecting terminal 30 to the other two legs.
<========================
To read the complete post in a new window CLICK HERE.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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What he just said about the lugs....
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