Our 1993 Classic has seen better days. It runs well. I know the motor inside and out. I need to do some work to tighten belts, or at least take it into a mechanic to finally fix the squeals that my shade-tree mechanic work can't heal. I haven't been that vigilant about oil changes, as I was trying to get tenure (got it), but the car runs well nevertheless.

The paint is badly oxidized from being parked outside our old apartment (new house recently, now a garage!)

The A/C sucks.

This car hauls our kids and my wife around. It doesn't have rear airbags. I know its safe.. but I worry about that.

I'm considering a 2003 5-series wagon ($13K!). Or maybe a 2004 Passat ($10K). I kinda know what the board will say... but I'll ask anyway. Advice?
--
((1993 245 Classic, 125K)) ((1992 244, M47, 115K)) ((1992 244, 120K - departed)) ((1987 245, 271K - RIP)) San Diego

If you buy anything used, a VW, BMW, Mercedes, V70 or XC70 with 100k-150k even with records, you will encounter a bunch of wear items that'll require replacement just like a 150k miles 240. Engine gaskets, O2 sensors (you may have at least two or four on newer cars, suspension bushes, shocks, brakes, engine gaskets, and so on and on and on and at 90-150$ an hour labor + repair facility parts markup, well, then. These newer cars (including the newer Vorvos) are not as simple or accessible for home mechanic servicing.

Ever need to replace a Haldex AWD transfer case or cv joint? Such a flarbing joy. You have to race at breakneck speed to keep up with the specialty tools now a dayze.

If you can afford the greater wear item expense on these newer cars, than you have greater peace and comfort with newer auto amenities, like eight tee vee screens; each with unique programming.

I have to say, however, there was a 1978 Mercedes sedan at the Pull and Save (or you Wrench your Wynche or U-Pull-Your-Pud). The rear suspension was so simple. On a mid-1990s 7-series BMW, the front strut dampener was not inside the coil spring. At least BMW stays with the I-6.

So, I may be considering a move to a BMW, a late 1970s BMW, tho. The 3.3 liter I-6 is just too nice in that 6 series. Cast iron alloy head and block.

cheers,

Volvo "Buttermilk" MacDuff

While I drive Volvo's, Mercedes and BMW's are also great cars. Just avoid all cars produced later than the mid 90's. The newer the car, the more likely that both the service tech info as well as the engineering specs that go into production, are mostly now proprietary.
This means that nearly all of your mechanical work will have to be done by the
dealer. Hopefully over time this will lessen and car manufacturers will loosen up on the info for aftermarket parts and the needed specialty tools as well. but the trend doe not look promising.

A good example would be the new Volkswagen Passat. Suppose you have a rear seal go out on the transmission. You could take it to an aftermarket transmission shop and have it repaired for a couple of hundred dollars,right? Unfortunately now the shop can not just go out and buy the replacement seal. VW only sells complete rebuilding kits for their newer transmissions to outside vendors. This levels the playing field price wise for the VW dealer and could eventually put all the private garages and shops out of business once us die hards kill off whats left of the pre- mid nineties cars..

One more thing about Mercedes. My brother had a full size 1991 Mercedes sedan without side impact airbags.. His daughter was broadsided in the drivers door. The other vehicle was going over 45mph. My niece was literally pushed into the center of the car with her seat belt on. The Mercedes did what it was designed to do. The center hump collapsed, while the the sides of the car that are structurally tied together provider her protection. She walked away with a few bruises. Her only complaint was that the doctor wouldn't allow her to play high school soccer for a week.

I think I'm gonna keep the 245 - pour $2K into repaint, a/c repair, and all the little things that are broke. My only fear is that when the car was last smogged a year-and-a-half ago, it barely passed CA emissions - but like one point.

--
((1993 245 Classic, 165K)) ((1992 244, M47, 135K)) ((1992 244, 120K - departed)) ((1987 245, 271K - RIP)) San Diego

If you are in San Diego. I have the PERFECT Volvo shop for you. I'm in EL Cajon. And i use Auto Tech on Marshall in EL Cajon. They are a Volvo shop with over 28 years in the business. They are awesome in every way possible! there prices are reasonable. And you cant beat the quality of there work. Tell them that Mark with the 960 sent ya!

Give these guys the emissions test readings and I bet they can tell you what is wrong. Normally, a full tune-up and a fully warmed up car can sneak you through. If not, there are really only two components and a lot of potential vacuum leaks to worry about.

$10k for the Passat seems high. I just sold my 2002 Passat GLX with 106,000 miles on it for $5k and it was in very good shape. There were some issues with sludging on their turbo 4s, but they may have had it sorted out by 2004.

I assume the '92 244 in you sig line is for "fun" and you're looking for a new family hauler? Or is that one gone too?

If you've still got a 240 in the fleet, get a new(er) car with all the frills and comforts for hauling the fam. Give someone else a shot at your '93 245.

If you were a one-car person, suggesting moving on to a newer car because you wanted a/c or something, I'd say "toughen up" and "you'll regret it." But if you've got a 244 at your disposal and want something a bit more family friendly, I'd say it's actually a good idea to get something newer. Go for it; just make sure your "Classic" goes to the right person (ie. one of us).

You can always get out in the 244 when you start to long for a simpler vehicle.

The 244 is still my driver - although I usually ride my bike, and the car gets very few miles a year. The 245 is our family car, road-trip vehicle, etc. Last smog it barely passed. There's deferred maintenance that needs done - and paint and such. It hasn't died yet! So, I must say that I'm sympathetic to Mike's point that the car just needs a little love.

I am tempted by something with airbags for the kids. Then again, a 240 is safe and dependable and cheap, as I know how to work on it.

Also --- you'll see my updated mileage in this signature. Still babies!

--
((1993 245 Classic, 165K)) ((1992 244, M47, 135K)) ((1992 244, 120K - departed)) ((1987 245, 271K - RIP)) San Diego

May I re-emphasize one of my points...PLEASE try out a V70. The T5 models are addictive but I really just want the regular model as it is still plenty quick.

Even the late '90's models have interiors on par with any of the cars you listed.

Although not as DIY friendly as a red-block Volvo they are a LOT more so than a VR6 (the BMW I6 is such a beautiful motor you will never hear me say anything bad about it) though the VW turbo motor is pretty DIY friendly. The same mechanics that know your 240 well will likely know the original 850-platform V70's even better. Their forum on the BB is almost as busy and knowledgeable as the RWD forum.

Now all that being said...my wife and I are in love with the (2001+) Saab Sportcombi because:

They fixed all the reliability problems of former GM Saabs and many of the "quirks" of the pre-GM Saabs.

Because of Saab's tenuous hold on solvency, their cars are worth less than comparable Ford Taurus's in the used market.

Seats equal to or better than the best Volvo seats.

GM designed AC

Addictive but frugal 2.0T motor.

Enthusiast website support almost as good as the BB.

They are just stunning wagons.

GM supply chain for parts.

Things I am having a hard time getting past:

FWD even if they manage torque steer well.

Cargo area is much less useful than on the Volvos and Mercedes (but better than the BMW 3-series wagon).

Mandatory sunroof.

Used parts will be almost non-existent for the Sportcombi-specific items as the sales volume was very low.

Edit...I meant 2007+ 9-3's

Mike

Just to clarify the air bag info a bit...

Newer, larger and more electronically complex V70's (2001+) all have front, side and side curtain airbags at a minimum. My Dad was rear-ended in his 2001 V70 last year while pulled off the highway at approximately 65 mph and walked away with a minor cut and a sore neck. He didn't even have his seatbelt on. He had literally just stepped back into the car (fortunately)!! I'm damn glad he was in that car! BTW - Car was only marginally totalled. The frame was still straight.

Later 850's and the V70's through 2000 have front, side, SIPS and other safety features. After owning a 90 240 for 10 years, I bought a 95 855 (wagon) two years ago. So far it has been a terrific car! 850's and early V70's (850 frame) have less electronics and are more DIY friendly than the 2001+ cars. Plus I think they are more fun to drive..:)

Whatever you buy, make sure it has been maintained. Today's complex cars can't take neglect the way a 240, 740, 940 can.

"They fixed all the reliability problems of former GM Saabs and many of the "quirks" of the pre-GM Saabs."

Can I hear more about this - and is this 2001+, or 2007+? I'm a bit confused...
--
((1993 245 Classic, 165K)) ((1992 244, M47, 135K)) ((1992 244, 120K - departed)) ((1987 245, 271K - RIP)) San Diego

Sorry for the confusion...it was 2007+.

The concerns about the 1999-2003 Saab 9-3's were self-inflicted by the extended maint schedule that GM was putting on all their high-end cars after the success of the 100K miles-no maint-campagne of the original STS and other Northstar engine vehicles.

The 2.0T motor, driven in town, on short trips with conventional oil changed at very long intervals (often 10-15K miles could equal two years) caused engine sludging. New owner gets the car, puts in synthetic, drives the piss out of it and you instantly have a low oil pressure issue (synthetic loosens the sludge) and damage from a clogged oil pick-up.

In truth any of the 9-3's are good if well maintained and driven hard at least occasionally. When you can pick up a $35K car for $13-18K...why would you bother with the older model. 2007+ have a nicer dash layout and look much better on the outside.

I am going to reiterate that while I think the Saab is the best bang-for-the-buck, the V70 will probably cost you less long-term if you do most of your own work. Never under-estimate the value (dollar value) of this board when you do your own repairs.

Mike

Thanks for suggesting the V70.

I have been thinking recently that my 1987 745 is getting long in the tooth, and my wife and her 1992 245 are really not suited to each other, and that even "modern" 940s (a possible replacement for the 700) are by now 15+ years old.

Where to turn? What IS out there that is robust, pulls a trailer well, carries lots on a roof rack, is sensibly made, has excellent seats, etc. and is NOT some silly oversized SUV?

I guess I could pay attention to the V70s.

Dope slap. I DID, when my young adult daughters have just talked of going to Sweden, and I looked into overseas delivery: no V70s listed on Borton web site... just the yuppie XC70, if I remember right.

Aw, what would I do with a new car anyway? Just make it look used real fast. :-(

If you need to tow over 1500#...stick with RWD or go for the excellent, but extremely yuppie and fuel inefficient, XC90. Get a late 940 turbo and spend money making it "new".

Mike

Cool. Thanks for your encouragement.

Patience is certainly called for. 945s do not show up so often here.

Ah! And also I have felt free to leave complimentary notes (= praising; not free!) under wipers of good-looking cars, asking for a call if they wish to sell, and had some good talks with folks. I can keep up the practice. :-)

We've been pretty happy with out 2001 V70T5. It is certainly quick and fast enough,
looks pretty good, and is pretty comfortable.
Keep the 240 for the kids to learn to drive in.
(or grandkids or great grandkids...)
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma

First, congratulations getting tenure.

If you decide to go with a different car, give the Volvo community first shot at buying your 1993. I am sure it will go quickly. A dealer won't give you anything for it.

I wish I could give you advice on a different ride, my newest ride is a 1998 Chevrolet pickup truck. The other are, not old, but, vintage Volvo's.

Good Luck

Fred

Been there and done that. I would add the 2001+ Saab 9-3 Sportcombi to the list along with Mercedes E-series wagons from the late '90's early 2000's.

Keep in mind three things:

You will be financing (most likely) so on top of depreciation and repairs, you throw the interest out the window

You will have a very steep learning curve for repairs, and used cars always have repairs, which includes finding the right garage and learning some skills yourself and finding an enthusiast site like this

You would be giving up the pinnacle of 140/240 evolution . Most of the problems, including the sub-par AC, were fixed on that model (except the blower motor).

You could reduce the second one by picking up a nice V70.

You could reduce the first one by going with a Taurus wagon that cost almost nothing, is reliable but is far from stylish and may or may not have rear airbags.

In the end, everything in life is a trade-off but the 240 you describe is one in need of a little love and a little money to be ready to go for the next 10 years.

Mike