So...........added to the mix is my new 123 distributor. Advertisements show this thing to run perfectly smooth, even goes to show a running timing scenario where it is smoother than the stock Bosch, so why does mine jump all over the place with the timing light? Could this thing really be responsive to the power stroke of the engine? I don't see how, it is not connected in any way and I don't think it has mechanical telepathy to ascertain information regarding the same. I think the stock Bosch is where I'm headed next, anyone want a 123 at a discounted price?
Cam, if your reading this please jump in with your own confirmation of the erratic experience you had as well.

My B20E w Schneider cam...was never smooth at idle, but 123 Dist runs OK at the setting for FI...I think its 10-32 deg advance range. I ran it without the vacuum sensor. As I recall there are a couple caveats in the plain 123 not mentioned in the catalog...something about advance is "0" til 1500 RPM, and vac advance is nil til vac falls below 11"WG. Also...all the curves are for stock engines...any mods make them useless. Set baseline advance at 15 BTDC, and tweak from there...I went to 123 Tune which works very well, I run a base point 18 BTDC - 34 range and am reasonably happy for a fartbrain of a tuner (me)...

Rawits ...ok, for my understanding lets do this........... my crank pulley shows a degree range of 10 degrees BTDC and then progresses to 30 ATDC. 0 is TDC. Now, since we are talking the 'range' of degrees in terms of advance to be about 33-35 degrees (lets call it 35) we can expect if I set my static timing at 10 degrees BTDC then my total advance being 35 degrees would reflect 25 degrees ATDC on the crank pulley under a stroboscope.
I ask this because everyone refers to the total timing being 35 degrees and to set the load or dynamic timing at 3500 RPM with the total advance of the distributor. The mistake I was making was setting the total advance on my crank pulley to 35 degrees by the marks of the pulley making me about 10 degrees off the mark, so to speak, lol.
Distributors are simple enough but when we discuss them we make it more to be than it is. Keeping my brain in check without going nuts took me a long time to figure out just what everyone was 'really' talking about. Am I right or am I still missing something. No pun. Bone

"... my crank pulley shows a degree range of 10 degrees BTDC and then progresses to 30 ATDC."

Nope. You're reading it wrong way around.

Best,

Cameron
Rose City

I realized that about 10 minutes after I posted that I was back asswards in my thinking.
I also realized that because the 123 is fully electronic with no centro weights that every little detail was going to effect it the way it functions so.... back to the beginning, my plug gap was just ever so slightly to wide, I adjusted the Dynamic timing to 33 degrees BTDC at 3500 RPM. I also notice the plugs were white with ash so I opened my jets 3 flats on both carbs. Don't you know this goshdarn motor runs like a monster now? It idles better then ever, has balls right off the line and progressively has power right through the rpm ranges. I even left some rubber behind at a stop sign.

I have a 123Ignition and the erratic timing light at idle is normal. Check out their forum at: http://www.123ignition.nl/forum/list.php?f=4

Set the max. timing at 3-3500 rpm (it will be rock steady)and let the idle fall based on the selected setting.

Gregg

I looked at the forum on the link provided but didn't see anything about why the timing should be erratic at idle with the 123. I didn't look through all the posts, so I may have missed it.

On the two that I've installed, each had jumpy timing when the timing light was used, and this was true both at idle as well as higher rpms. Sounds like these two were different than the "normal jumpy at idle" you're referring to. Nothing in the provided instructions said anything other than adjusting the timing with a stroboscope - that is, no mention of jumpy timing marks at idle. It's hard to believe that this is intentional or acceptable, especially given that there's no mention of it in the installation instructions.

I'd love to fit my 122 with a programmable distributor, or at least one that offers a variety of curves from which to choose. I've thought a lot about one of these, but haven't yet convinced myself to take the gamble. It'll be really hard for me to spend money on a device that gives erratic timing given that that same device is intended to cure... well... erratic timing. Seems more than a little odd.

How is the jumping timing light supposed to be beneficial?

Best,

Cameron
Rose City

The erratic idle timing is due to their "Spark Balancing" technology. My engine idles smooth @ ~800rpm with "jumpy" timing mark!

Do a search "unstable":
http://www.123ignition.nl/forum/read.php?f=4&i=2695&t=1655#reply_2695

or "erratic":
http://www.123ignition.nl/forum/read.php?f=4&i=2695&t=1655#reply_2695
http://www.123ignition.nl/forum/read.php?f=3&i=794&t=774#reply_794

Gregg

Hm. Hard to believe that 123 would only casually mention this profound advance rather than use it to heavily promote their product. Same with their double spark feature. Oh, by the way, our product just happens to mimic F1 technology. Not that you can find any reference to this technology on google or bing, though...

The two I've tried had bouncy timing at all rpms and the engines ran really poorly with the 123 - not even driveable. With standard issue Bosch distributors, they ran just fine.

I'm not buying this "spark blancing" rhetoric.

Best,

Cameron
Rose City

Cameron, yeah I was thinking the same thing while 'tweaking' my 123 just a short while ago. I did find a sweeter spot for it to run with more power but again I found it to be erratic at idle and at the higher rpm ranges.
Honestly, as you mentioned, what's the difference between this and the old distributor?
makes me think someone hit the market with an idea that for whatever reason has turned into a very positive gain. Im thinking along the lines now of revamping my old points unit with the electronic retro fit system offered by IPD.
I don't mind spending the money but experimenting is a hard way to lose cash and time.
I think if you live in the high rpm range this unit might be 'a' way to go but for me, simple cruise round town, car show night, occasional drag, its not what I want. You might see my unit on Craig's list before to long, lol.

Gregg, what did you set the 3-3500 degree at? My dial is set to 'C' based on the 123 format for my engine.

I have a modified B20 that does not like a lot of advance below 3000rpm. I have the 123Ign set on 5 with max advance adjusted to ~31(no vac hooked up) at 4000rpm. John Parker says this setting for the B20A does not make full advance until ~4000rpm. I have the vac advance hooked up. It still runs a little lean (I have a AFR gauge installed) when under 1/2 - 3/4 acceleration below 3000rpm. I need to raise the needle clip in the Mikunis a knotch.

I was thinking of buying this 1-2-3 distributor. I had the 1975 Volvo B-20 electronic setup that worked well for years but the black box malfunctioned and left me stranded. I am running on stock points now, which has been OK but I am not fond of lots of seasonal points fiddling.

So if you decide not to continue with the 1-2-3, I may buy it from you.

This note is directed to 1963Slateblue122--it is very rare to have the control unit fail with the Bosch electronic ignition. I have a few of them--$10 bucks + postage if you would like one. Contact me at---fastforwardphoto(AT)yuahoo(DOT)com---Dave

This weekend Im sure to play with the car again. Ill stay in touch and share my results.

This is something I have thought about adding. They are supposed to do spark balancing which times ignition based on how much of an effect each cylinder has on RPM. Aside from the scatter you see with the timing light, how is the idle? What does the timing look like at higher RPMs?

I'm still running a bosch. When I replaced the points with a solid state hall effect sensor, it made a big difference.

Im still fiddling with getting my carbs tuned properly, that should make a difference in the 123 but idle is a bit rough, jumpy on the timing light to about a 15 degree difference between light flashes. Higher speeds it seems ok.

Carb adjustments won't make any difference in what the distributor does, nor how well it does it. The jumpy ignition timing is a symptom of an ignition system problem and is not by design; and until that's addressed, you simply cannot get the carbs dialed. Whatever carb adjustments you make while the ignition isn't working correctly will be for naught and will have to done over once your ignition issue is resolved.

Compression first, ignition second, carbs last.

Best,

Cameron
Rose City

Do you have a 123 igniton that has various settings to choose from? If so, did you choose the setting that suits your engine?
If you have an extensively modified engine, there may be no matching setting or you will have to try some alternative settings.

And which coil do you use? If you still have the original coil with armoured cable then there is a risk the resistance will be less than 1 ohm, which will cause damage to your 123 ignition. Therefore the original type of coil should never be used with a 123 ign.

So what is your suggestion for the correct coil to use with a 1 2 3? I have a 1 2 3 waiting to be installed but never saw anything about replacing the stock coil.

Those of you who have installed a 123, did you change coils as well?

I used the Bosch blue coil (P/N 100220), prevalent on later Volvos and all sorts of other European cars. They're available from IPD and others for about $50. I asked the 123 people about using this coil and got the OK from them. No problems with my installation going on five years.

Roy

Yes the Distributor has various settings and it is set to setting 'C' which is what the 123 book says to set it at and also I have a new Bosch coil.