My 1991 Volvo 240 was parked in front of my home. A drunk driver hit his Honda Accord with high speed at the front driver side wheel. Both the wheels turned
towards the curb and front driver side wheel rim bent badly, control arm rear came out from rear bracket attached to frame, sway bar link (front driver side) bent badly, ball joint bent. His insurance wants to total the car. I want to fix this car because I love this car. Honda was almost finished. Volvo 240 is very strong.

If I replace the control arm, ball joint and sway bar link, I would be able to drive the car?

Thanks

Write them a letter to this effect:

The insured (Mr. Whoever) hit and damaged my car on the night of __/__/__. A police report found him to be under the influence.
My car has been seriously damaged, and is currently inoperable. I am now looking at a loss of income as a result of the disablement of my vehicle.
I was neither in the market to sell or buy a new vehicle, and my vehicle was in good running condition.
Given that the following 5? vehicles in my local market are priced at an average of $_____, and all of them need at least $____ in repairs to be brought to the same condition as the vehicle the insured damaged, I believe the fair market value to be $_______.

Thus far, your efforts to low-ball me and cite non-existent laws about fair market value have been disrespectful and ridiculous. Also given that it's been over a month since your client damaged and disabled my vehicle while driving under the influence, I have suffered considerable financial and personal consequences because of your client's actions.

You have 3 days to respond to this certified letter with an appropriate counter-offer that is within one standard deviation of the mean cost of replacement for my vehicle, or I will be forced to enlist the services of an attorney. I will win the lawsuit, and you will be paying my lawyer's fees in addition to the fair market value of $_____ and compensation for the ____ days loss of use of my vehicle and the $____ I've had to spend on alternate transportation.

I look forward to your response, and hope that we can reach a satisfactory agreement to compensate me for the actions of the insured,
-Your name-





I think that might get their attention. Notice how I repeated the "your client damaged my vehicle" over and over and pointed out the obvious of "I'm going to leave you hurting if we go to court," and the statement (your counter-offer) of what they need to pay you (might want to go a little high), and the use of "cost of replacement" instead of "fair market value of the vehicle". Cost of replacement is exactly what the fair market value of the vehicle is, despite what kind of depreciation figures they think apply.

Your car was probably perfectly road-worthy, and is now unusable. You should be hassling the heck out of these clowns incessantly until they give you what you deserve. If they don't, the case is a slam-dunk. Don't hesitate to tell them that a judge will laugh them out of court for their ridiculous offers. Their moron driver drunk drove into your car and they won't pay you a fair price for it. Then you can sue for "pain and suffering" and "loss of income" and a bunch of other stuff the attorney knows more about than I do.

Do find out what the actual average price for a replacement car is - look on craigslist and look at used car dealerships. Also get estimates for what it would cost to repair the other cars. Let them worry about the standard-deviation from the mean, but tell them what the mean is. Here, most volvos sell for 1-3 thousand, and they all would benefit from 1-3 thousand in work. That puts you in the 4-6 thousand ballpark for replacement, not including the other losses.

They're being jerks, fight back! Get aggressive. Imagine that they walked up to your car with baseball bats and broke out all the windows, lenses, and mirrors then offered you $800 for damages. Get mad.

Good luck - and feel free (any member of the site) to use my example letter word-for-word.

Well said my Man!
I'll put a thump up print on this well thought out post!

Phil

Do not let the insurance off the hook on this one! If that had been a four year old car sitting there, they already have calculated the odds that it would have been, they would be paying for it!

There are too many shops that go to yards and get their parts off cars that insurance companies sell off to the junkyards. They know you can have it fixed for that newer car price or less.

Most of that stuff is rubber mounted is why it popped out. Most just bolts back on!
Having to use a frame straighter, if even needed, is just not that expensive.

The cost of parts is not the issue here or whether it can be fixed inexpensively.

It is all about scraping yours and putting you into that "newer" car depreciation cycle,again!
Of course that will be at your cost too!
It will be far more on you in the long run if you look at the overall picture! Believe me the car manufactures stock holders, insurance companies included, are delighted with it.

You did nothing to warrant such treatment and insurance companies will raise everyone rates anyway! They don't lose. Just like the politicians never cut taxes. They just create more excuses for more increases.

If they insist on taking your car, get a deal to have them pay for the insurance rate on the newer car for at least six years, at full coverage! Let them play the odds game! I bet, they, will still make money as they will right it off as a loss just like your whole package deal will be!

A '91 is a keeper!
Phil

His insurance is offering me $1200 for totaling the 1991 VOLVO 240. The left
fender, driver side front and rear doors are also damaged. Insurance says its
new York law not to fix the car if repair cost more than value of the car.
Insurance says cost of repair for The left fender, driver side front and rear doors is $5000.

Could you please guide me what to tell his insurance.

Thanks

Anil wrote--"Insurance says its
new York law not to fix the car if repair cost more than value of the car."
The insurance company-as others have written-is not being upfront and square with you (imagine that!). I live in New york also - Long Island - and have had three of my cars and one repair client's car "totaled" through no fault of my own. In each case negotiation brought the amount offered upped and we did not have to give up the titles - or the cars - in fact the '99 Saab needed nothing to make it saleable and useable by the next owner -- the others became parts cars. The insurance companies were more than happy not to have to retrieve a car they would have to tow and store and in end, sell to a scrap yard for peanuts. The Saab had the highest buy back price of $200 -- deducted from the $2900 settlement. Sold that one for $800 as a driver. Parted out the others. -- Dave

Thanks.
His insurance is giving me hard time. They got CCC One appraisal report on my VOLVO 240. And they are making as base market value on this report.

What should I tell the insurance?.

Thanks

Tell them to shove that paperwork where the sun does not shine!

They have to reconcile the accident for their client or he is going to be civilly liable. Scratch that, they are as he contracted them to cover him up to the limits of his policy terms!

There is nothing written that they can short change that coverage just because he hit a older car.
A fire hydrant or a wall into a busy cafe.....any accident! Do you think they depreciate the glasses, dishes and tables in that restaurant.. What if they can not get that pattern of dishes or uniquely upholstery seats. Just the same "As" your car they have to compensate your loss!

Your car in not drivable. The restaurant has to stay close for repairs. Lost business and employee expenses. Think about your situation and their obligation! The monkey is on their back and they know it!
Why do you think that when they settle they keep the payout in a low profile or even gaged for a period of time! These methods are invented by them for themselves!

I mentioned you can take it to a neutral arbitrator. I say neutral in that you do not want your insurance company involved because they look out for each other.

Negotiate....negotiate .....negotiate! You have to lay out more reasons not to accept . Never, never forget that you are the victim here and remind them of that. Their first offer is always less than half of what they know is their minimum. Standard Operating Procedure!
Time is on your side. Let them know the clock is running on them and you can find more expenses the longer you look!

As far as those doors. A person can find them for about a couple hundred dollars each and are sitting on a shelf, probably in the same color.
I found one for a car at a P&P for forty dollars. That's another item that just bolts on!

Phil

His insurance offering me now $875. I rejected the offer. They are giving very hard time. They say that is the market value of the car.
Almost 1 month is passed. What should I do?.

Thanks

Just whose insurance company did this “Demon driver” have, to make “you” deal with anyway?

I just want to know so I will not ever do business with them or find out it is the people I have NOW!

Tell them, you are telling friends this story (nation wide) and the chapters are turning into a great novel at this rate!
Your Brick Board friends love to read and write and then there are those opinions pages, which cross under a many of eyeballs! You have not even got started as yet! I think you are over twenty responses already! That is just the writers. There are far more people willing to read!

Good advice is coming in on this chat site, I can tell you that!
A few phone calls to those mentioned just might get back to raise a blister under somebody’s derriere at the insurance agency.
Besides, its winter time, you have needed your car repaired for over a month!

There has to be time limits on insurance companies! Remember a squealing wheel gets the grease!

Getting a few better place words from those advocates for you to use might give the insurance men a wake up call that this is serious too you!

I like that idea of small claims, arbitrators or a 150 dollar letter from an attorney might be nice!
Turning a blister into a boil, with jobs getting scarce, he might shift some the hassles from you if his Christmas bonus is endangered!
It like dealing with medical insurance you got to push back every time they push your shoulder you got to push on theirs back to let know you have rights as a victim or patient!

Be your own advocate with these jokers!
Start going to another supervisor, at the corporate level, well above his head!
The regional supervisor from out of that local office are needed here!

Phil

Thanks to all of you.

Its a GEICO insurance.
My car is 1991 VOLVO 240 4 door sedan automatic transmission with 111000 miles my location is New York city.

I provided them following list of VOLVO 240's in the market.

1) 1990 VOLVO 240DL wagon manual transmission mileage 330,000 price $6,975.

2) 1982 VOLVO 240DL wagon 4 door sedan automatic transmission mileage 71,298 price $6,500, location: Ohio.

3) 1992 VOLVO 240 wagon automatic transmission mileage 285,000 price $6,000.

4) 1991 VOLVO 240 sedan automatic transmission mileage 127,000 price $4,995.

5) 1993 VOLVO 240 Base wagon manual transmission mileage 200,000 price $10,000.
location Indianapolis

Insurance wrote: "The quotes are not for the same vehicle and vehicles quoted
are not located within 76 miles from your home".

What should I do?

Thanks.

I know that the 240's are becoming rare and there are some cherry cars out there for sale but no insurance company is going to buy that your car as it was a collectors car.

To some, it maybe getting that way and if they are, they are not parked on the street any longer.
They are trying play that your car is or was nothing more than a trash can sitting at the curb!

In the same tone you are trying to prove is that it is repairable. At one time your car was a major investment. The car was not scrap sitting on the street with current tags and fees paid for it to be driven! It is an asset, period!
Those cars you have listed, for those prices are in the same position ready for another driver to insure and drive with a small profit hopefully for maintenance of the years.
So is yours.
You can afford not to make that small profit they want but by no means should you take it the shorts for their idiot driver that they are providing liability coverage for! Their lucky you were not sitting in the car listening to the radio or bent over in the car getting out a package!

I do not know what 75, plus one stinking mile has to do with it. Unless, you live in Hawaii, which last I knew was also a state. It might be there happens to be the radius of the largest island in the chain and they have that loop hole for that state to screw customers there. It should not have anything to do with having your car repaired within a bid!
What if you lived in one corner of your state that touches three or four other states! Maybe, Like out in Utah! What if he lost control around those corners!

You live on the continent of which they sell 98% of their polices and blast our communication media with tiresome commercials. Plenty of money is put in to all that mess on a daily basis. Your car would be chump change in comparison!

I quit watching T.V. And, I put every envelope I get in the mail into a recycle bin, unopened!

This sounds as ridiculous as the state will go along with the insurance company offering you a scrap price as your cars limits, on getting that repair job done! No car ever gets repaired to be like it never happened. There is always a paper trail and that's why Car Fax is ran for insurance companies, so they can always reduce the value of any car!
That line that they have to repair a car to a like new condition is a cop out used with body shops to vary the bids!
Have you gotten any bids within 76 miles? What happens if you lived in Puerto Rico. I bet they sell insurance there too! Government Employee Insurance Company probably sells in territories too, as they have governments too!

Have you demanded to be place in front of an independent (not insurance company influenced) arbitration committee or person?

You need to get cracking on them by mention those big guns I and others have talked about!
Start mentioning a civil suit against their client! In my state, if you lose or have property stolen with value of over 500 dollars it's more than a misdemeanor crime! You list them both as partners!
You do have a police report don't you!?

Phil

Thanks.

I asked them I need independent arbitration. They said nothing. I told them I am going to court. They said you are free to go.

Thanks

By them not saying a thing proves they have built a wall of nonnegotiable communication and are still trying to bluff you! They are backing you into that wall but it's not a box!

It's written in all policies that arbitration is the first line of negotiations to keep these kinds of matters out of courts!

They are required to do so and prove such if they go to court! That representative needs heat from within his own corporation as this simple case should have been done and over with! Just the time he has squandered away is in your favor!

Find your own car policy and you will see it written there. It's not just car policies, all of them!
You are only asking for fair treatment from the company responsible to cover their clients liability!

Courts love contracts and they are flat out trampling theirs with their client!

Right now I can look out my sister-in-laws window and see two cars in the drive way. My 91 Volvo and her yellow1973 VW bug.
Do you know she can get as much for her car now as I paid for mine eight years ago. Up to three thousand dollars for a VW and it's not as near as comfortable to drive as my Volvo. Not to mention which is safer to drive! Common sense will say which one should have the better value!

I bet someone would buy my car over hers for two thousand dollars without even raising the hoods! Water cooled over air cooled engines, four door sedan, plush seats, room for five, factory speakers and electric tinted windows too boot!
Volvos were sold in 91 as an upper grade car then and are the same today. Just compare collision insurance rates on various manufactures and see by their own rate structure where they put Volvo values when yanking money from pockets! But all of a sudden you car is a trash can!

I need to ask my sister-in-law if she would trade! I know she loves her VW but that is where value is hard to place on paper!
Two cars sitting side by side, no owners with one buyer looking that sets the tone!
That adjuster is the salesman. What do you think he is trying to do! Duh!

It is your asset and never forget that!
There is corporate greed and apparently so is the adjuster for any bonus he can get. That has got to be his incentive! A Case number is dollar numbers and that's it! Change his case number into a litigation number,the more eyes get involved and he loses his grip on any bonus!
The reason for his silence back at you!

You need to become the big bad witch doctor and rattle some bones above that local offices head!

Get phone numbers and Speak to any regional representative and get that arbitration action going. The person assigned to you is totally in incompetent in negotiating with you! Keep kicking higher until you hit that sweet spot!
Promise to go to small claims court with the clients name and the company named separately if you have too! You are fed up with this sick ass companies excuses and verbal responses! Put things in writing instead of underwritten checks of intimidation!
Keep all of this documented with dates!
Courts and arbitrators love evidence!
Just show that they are more obstinate than you with facts of their actions!

Phil

The Honda accord hit my car 1991 VOLVO 240 first. my car took big impact than this Honda Accord hit Infinity in rear bumper. The GEICO paid Infinity lady $15000. This is not fair. I am helpless.

Thanks

If you have not done any of the things suggested in the posts then you are going to have clean up your own tears on this. You got to stop thinking like you just wrote or you will not even get a Christmas card from them next year. But you might get one of their advertisement anyway!
Oh, what a pain that would be to see year after year!
You need to make them pay for using your address for a discount on their printing cost if nothing else!

Phil

all due respect..........are you entirely helpless?

give them what they ask for.

search craiglist for all areas within 76 miles of nyc where a 1991 volvo 240 is being sold instead of cherry picking listings from around the country for absurd prices which in the end only makes you appear to geico..... ignorant and greedy.

On craiglist, autotrader and ebay VOLVO 240's are listed within 75 miles radius but not same milage and year. year is 1982,1990, 1992, 1993.

Thanks

Ditto what trichard wrote---and I can tell you from first hand experience with Geico that they were far from difficult to deal with when a neighbor swung a U-turn and bent the driver's door on my wife's 1999 SAAB 9-3. They had their affiliated body shop install a new door skin and painted the front fender, front door, rear door and blended the rear quarter and paid for a rental for the two weeks the car was in the body shop. -- Dave

Gather up going prices for cars being sold - locally and nationally (craigslist--ebay, etc) similar to yours--a year or two difference doesn't matter. What they call "market value" is just a number---you are in the real world and now need a car -- you didn't need to replace yours before their client wrecked it. The $875 figure could easily be eaten up by sales tax and fees for the "replacement" vehicle. As Chico once said to Harpo---"get tough Rusty". You have to be pro-active to get the insurance company to see it your way. If you come across knowledgeable and firm they'll get tired of jerking you around. -- Dave

Insurance companies are regulated at the state level. There will be a state agency (Dept. of Insurance, or such) that may be able to assist you. These agencies have consumer advocates who will contact the insurance company on your behalf. Typically, a company is more responsive when a government agency engages it regarding a complaint. This is an informal process and can be conducted over the phone, or by email. Also, as others have suggested, collect several "comparables" from craigslist, autotrader, ebay, and present these to the insurance adjuster. You can always file a small claims court action. You could get a lawyer to write a letter. Just mentioning these options to the adjuster may make him open the insurance company's purse wider.

Chris in VT '94 945 w/ 186K and former utility consumer advocate

Auto Damage Claims Supervisor called me 5 times today. left a message, "I would like to discuss the value of the vehicle with you".
I did not call back yet.

Thanks

You would almost think he was an insurer for an aircraft that just crashed.

He under pressure to get the families to settle before they come out of shock or find out more information!

If and when you call him, I would not do it soon, I would tell him that this is the holidays and you are now having to be more busy. You had to change plans on how to get around, right!

You needed your car for these times. Is nearly impossible to gets shops to look at it for several days!

Let him know the offer was way low ball and is totally not acceptable. Advise him that you are seeking advice from friends.
At best, you feel that this kind of tactic, that you have been subjected to, was totally uncalled for!

Let him know that this lack of negotiation started off on the wrong foot. That, You are now stepping sides ways at the moment, until you can feel better with facts that line up to a more equitable settlement! This is not an even Steven requirement. Your life has been disrupted with this whole inconvience.

Your car was running very well and you were not interested in selling it before this happened.

Any car that he can get prices for on will be a car with problems, that's why the numbers will be low!

It takes as much or more than what you would pay for one, to fix it up into the running condition of the car you have! You know the quality of your car he does not! Nor can he find out, nor will he try as he just wants to settle! Remember he is obligated to settle. Make him work harder than a real estate agent for his percentage!

An accident that was not your fault does not give him and that company the right to snatch it away.

Treat him as if this car was that restaurant and remind him that you are having to do the leg work now, to get things back in order to get things back to normal in your life!

The idea of having to sell your business (the car) as it is not something you should have to do because his client was careless and smashed it up!

I bet he can come up with more because we all know that his clients insurance rate are going to go up for years.

Look at this way, he is going to be making payments to pay you off and any other new ones!

Run that down on your "Damage Supervisor" during negotiations!

The check book is open to you. Make'm be more fair!

A whining wheel bearing gets greased!

Phil

Insurance sent me a check of $800 without consulting me. What should I do now?

Thanks.

that is a tactic. a dance step if you will to see what you're all about.

if this was a medical malpractice claim the game would be the same only lawyer to lawyer if they could not speak to the harmed party or family first.

ie:

they want to pay as little as possible you want them to pay as much as possible.

clearly you will need to do your homework in terms market value, recent in the market retail sales of year make and model for your area, etc etc and show them and their agents you aren't going away, can be handled like a stupid child and know what things are worth in the market place

everyone even insurance companies lives and works within the marketplace. you buy and sell with in the market. what you need to do is demonstrate you're aware of this reality and then prove to them you won't go away until you get a reasonable or better real market based settlement.

What you shoud NOT do is cash it. Cashinig it will constitute an acceptance of their offer. Call the person handling the case immediately and let them know they have to do better--much better. -- Dave

Before responding to the adjuster do a little research on ebay, craigslist, the BB and local papers, etc. so you can hit him (or her) with real world numbers. Don't be afraid to mention your need to rent a car or pay for storage while they make up their mind(s). And I've also been compensated for towing the wreck, and potential sales tax and licensing on the next vehicle. Get your figure ballooned up. Put up a fight and it will pay off for you. -- Dave

Ok I am game!
Just for how many years have you been paying them several hundred dollars a year for coverage.

I do not mean for your car I mean for some one else's car more expensive car that you might hit. There are several hundreds of thousands of them out there that he or you could hit!

Rates are charged at rates are set by insurance commissions in each state. They are arrived by what's are considered fair and equitable with the odds of damage in zones adjusted for by city and all states you might drive into. Most of all, the company whines for profits.

If you want to buy into that, there is a law just for your state, that will help them reduce their liability when the odds are calculated for all of our national drivers, you are very gullible.
That would be like having some small print that says, you are limited to how many times you can leave the state, hours you can drive or if it snows, we will cut the coverage in half!

They already got us by the bells as they "influence" a car dealers sales book to accelerate control over those depreciation prices. Sighting labor cost is first as parts and list pricing is a scam setup by both parties leaving consumers slammed in the middle. Parts are made as cheap as mass production will provide!
We know all of this and the true value of our 240's.


I will asked this. The day before it was hit would you have sold that "nice solid car" for the price they are offering. I mean you could not keep that car any longer, not one minute longer, its gotta go!

It might have been worth that under those circumstances but you are being a victim here. You did not ask for this mishap! You were not selling anything!

They know that their driver or any driver could have landed on a more expensive behind yours or in the next posh neighborhood!
They have bucks to cover "any" accident and they know they are liable for as much too, everyday!

As far as that law, they are appealing to your feelings. Playing of your idea of a fair deal! Its all about physiological training THEY get.
You are in a fight with an arm tied behind your back or a blindfold to see their reasoning!

If you went to find a car as solid, dependable as your present car, what new car would you buy to replace it?
Now, you got to use the same fair and honest reasoning, you will be looking at compact car for sure.
One that has a heater, wipers, at least one air bag, and will run reliable as your car would have for at least another hundred thousand miles!

Your looking at a low mileage $8K and up to a $14K value car to replace yours. That is a true value that you should be thinking your car is worth. Because you are going to be out that much in the end of that hundred thousand miles to keep that lesser quality car on the road!

Think about it a lot....They are stealing that type of car right out from under your hard working hands!

Now, you got to put those hands up to fend off with quick thoughts placed in here and give the same fast lip service drag they are running down on you!

I and you know they are not going to give that type of car for a replacement even though they could. It's just a paperwork statistic! A Christmas bonus for the adjuster or area agent broker if you sign with the one hand your fighting with!

What you want is as much as they are liable for, in a real world that everyone gets charged for!

I know with Us, owning a 91 or even older cars, we are not in "their" real world but we should not be singled out as buying any less liability coverage for ourselves when we hit that Aston Martin we can "catch" on a side street!

Thinking you want at least twice what their offering and you keep the car. Now this is where you dicker. You want that, plus the cost of P & P parts to fix it!
This because they sell cars to them. That their other half of the scam on us!
You want the price they get from auction or some number above junk price. They are providing insurance and are not in the selling of car business. OR ARE THEY?

You car is not junk or you would have taken that earlier price before the car was hit!

Think its stuff over and tell them you want that real world price or you will bump it up to an arbitrator for sure.
They have time limits that are more costly to them overall, if passed. Arbitrators is a nasty word for an agent to hear or have to tell his bosses!

You just need to wait out their timer for awhile and make them sweat more money out of those cold dark corporations hands!

It's going to be a tattoo affair. Try not to let them turn it to the head of the screw to the left because as it turns right, it feels much better for you!
Phil

I recently received $1700 for a side swipe in a parking lot and was told that was 80% of the estimated value of a 91 245.

Dan

A few years ago, a guy turned into me at an intersection at a yellow light (I was going straight through), crunching the left front on my '83 wagon. My insurance company, Geico, declared it equal fault, and was not going to pay anything, on the same day that his company (Farmers) declared their driver at fault, which he was. The upshot, I immediately dropped Geico and went with Farmers.

Farmers "totaled" my car and paid me $2,900 but allowed me to buy back my car at a scrap price of around $150. I picked up a fender and front cowl at Pullapart (I had the rest of the parts in my parts pantry) for less than $50 and fixed it myself. Jim

If the rear control arm bracket is still attached to the frame and doesn't appear to have shifted, you may be able to salvage it with a new control arm, sway bar link, and ball joint.

I think you're more likely looking at a damaged or shifted steering rack, possibly tweaked subframe where all those pieces connect, and damage to or shifting of that rear control arm bracket. If it took that much damage to one side of the front end, with the focus on the wheel itself and the suspension/steering components, I'd be very surprised if you could get it right again.

Thank you Anthony.

The rear control arm bracket is still attached to the frame and doesn't appear to have shifted. Front end of control arm attached to cross member doesn't appear to have shifted. Steering wheel moves left and right so the front wheels.
How to check "damaged or shifted steering rack, possibly tweaked sub frame where all those pieces connect"?.

Thanks again.

That's good news the control arm bracket didn't seem to shift.

Unfortunately, the only way to tell if the rack has shifted or the subframe was tweaked is to rebuild it and see what you get. If you find the parts don't line up as they should or the steering shakes, pulls to one side, or can't be aligned properly, then you have your answer.

You could also be perfectly fine with just replacing the broken parts and getting it back on the road with no issues. I hope this is the case.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you find!!