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So looking for advice where to begin. This starting problem has been around for a while but is no longer tolerable. SO many things to fix on my brick so I need to prioritize!
Here's the deal:
Turn they key, maybe it starts right up. 90% of the time though there is a god awful scraping sliding sound that after 4 or 5 attempts results in a start. She might die again right after starting but often will be fine driving. Thoughts?
Thanks.
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'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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What pageda said.
Likely the ring gear teeth on the flywheel (or auto trans flexplate) are worn at one or two spots 180 degrees apart. A 4-cyl engine tends to come to rest when switched off, at those places in the crankshaft rotation, due to the crank arrangement of a cylinder coming up on the compression stroke every 180 degrees. Thus, the starter pinion gear contacts the ring gear at those spots nearly every start, and they wear.
If you have a manual trans car, before attempting to start, place it in 4th gear, e-brake off, clutch engaged, and nudge the vehicle back or forward an inch or two. Then try to start and I'll bet my mortgage it will crank over with no noise. What has happened is that you have rotated the engine a little and now present unworn ring gear teeth to the starter. Auto trans car? You're hooped. New ring gear is the only fix. ($$$)
My son's 1981 240 with manual had this problem - and the solution. At his high school parking lot he would casually - hoping to go unnoticed - nudge the car in top gear to avoid the embarrassing screech of the starter not quite engaging the ring gear. We installed a rebuilt starter, but that only slightly and temporarily improved things.
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Bob: Son's XC70, my 83 244DL, 89 745 (Chev LT-1 V8), 98 S90 (recently sold) and 2010 XC60. Also '77 MGB and four old motorcycles
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Hi,
That good information or wisdom you are imparting upon us here!
I always knew that engine will always stop their cylinders in the areas of halfway going up or down and even will rock backwards slightly to do that!
It makes sense that a four cylinder will have to two stops 180 degrees from each other when four are equalized.
I reckon a six will have three and an eight will double the four cylinder sample and have four.
I was thinking that since he has an automatic he could still experiment with his ring gear as well!
He can take a one inch socket and ratchet, with maybe a short extension and rotate the engine by its crankshaft center bolt.
The engine will sit wherever you pull it to. There is no compression build up for it to do otherwise.
A quarter turn would more than plenty.
This is one marble of wisdom, I will let keep company with the other loose ones in my head! (:-)
Phil
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Yeah? Maybe I'll give that experiment a try in the morning. Thanks for the marble. It matters not, but "he" is a she btw. :)
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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Well, Hi back!
I would have never guessed about a "he or she" with a nice "generic" name "seeds?"
I guessed about the crankshaft size to, but hey, I was off a 1/16."
It's not the first time for either of those before for me!
I don't think about to whom consciously, while remembering the content of my experiences.
I must write within my own work habits and to those of that I have worked with the most? Men!
I guess posts are like our tools?
They can be the same size, can be marked in both systems and it still work in the same place!
Guess you could use a 15/16" deep socket because this was pretty deep for me!
Oh, I think you have a starter problem! Ring gears, internal or external teeth don't ruin themselves!
(:-). I'll pass on the marble! I have both types of spare starters too! (:-)
Phil
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Hi Art, on average I turn the key and hold it there for 5 seconds or so while the metallic screeching ensues. Then I let go and try again. Usually 3 or 4 times and then the engine reluctantly starts. Maybe I'll get a YouTube up if I have a chance in the am. Thanks so much for your input.
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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A second read of your original post, and I'm doubting myself. Bob is always right anyway. :)
Either way, that top bolt needs to come out. Just makes a difference whether you need more than just the starter, and probably whether Bob has more than $100 left on his mortgage. ;)
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Those who race through life finish first. (Darrel Hunsbedt)
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Thank you, very interesting. I've got an auto or I'd be out there taking your advice right now.
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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Does it sound like metal on metal? Look at the teeth on the starter and flywheel.
Dan
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OOOh yes definitely metal on metal.
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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Is the starter firmly attached?
Dan
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yes, as far as I can tell. There is no movement when I press down on it with a screwdriver or try by hand to wriggle it.
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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Maybe just dry bearings in the starter?
Dan
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So replace the starter? A beast of a job since the top bolt is pretty much out of reach. Does it sound like the issue is most likely in the starter to you?
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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The top bolt requires about 3-4' of extension ending in a wobble or u-joint. Once you have that, removal is actually pretty simple.
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Good advice. I shouldn't fear it based on others' experiences. Gotta get in there and try it myself. I mean there's a youtube video of a guy drilling a hole in the floorboard by the gas pedal to get to it!
--
'92 245 74k, '84 245 80k, 79 245 162k rip (rust in peace)
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I have done a few so do not expect these results, but when I did it on my 1990 (slightly different bolt heads than yours) I had the old one out in less time than it took me to get it on the ramps.
If I remember correctly I used a shallow 3/8" drive socket, 3/8-1/2" adapter, 24" 1/2" drive wobble extension, 12" 1/2" extension, cheap battery impact wrench (all others before I did with a breaker bar and 1/2" ratchet).
Disconnect negative terminal on battery
Disconnect solenoid and main positive terminal on starter
Attach socket to upper bolt
Thread extension combo up to socket and wiggle it around until it is in place (this runs the length of the transmission at an angle)
While holding extension so nothing drops off, wriggle back to where you can get the wrench on it
Loosen upper bolt completely
Remove remaining bolts
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Here is the above method in Craftsman (Sears) tools. Note, your bolt will have an 18mm head but a 19 socket, like with the older cars, may seem to fit, but cause you no end of grief if the distinction isn't noticed.
Posted this link in another reply in this thread: http://cleanflametrap.com/starter.html
I saw that video where the (!#$!&) cut a hole in the car body a couple weeks ago. Sheesh.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
I went to buy some camouflage trousers the other day but I couldn't find any.
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You need to use 1/2" drive and have a cheater bar handy because the bolts can be very tight. I have used about 32" of extensions.
Dan
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