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Since DCOEs are pretty expensive (for me) and would require a bit of custom work... How would a Weber DGV race prepped by www.racetep.com for Improved Touring racing work compared to a dual SU HIF6 setup. I already have a DGV so I would run into almost no problems w/the install and I wouldn't need much at all. will this be good enough for performance compared to the SUs, b/c that was what I was originally going to get. But as I've said B4, I am quite limited on funds. I'm not going all out right now... I'm going to OSU next year and can't play too much...;-( (with my car that is...)
Let me know,
Later
Kyle KLR142
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Just in case you're really anti SU -- there are kits
that allow you to adapt the weber downdrafts to the
volvo stock SU intake manifold. This would give you
a motor with 2 downdraft weber carbs. At least this
would remove some of the more serious problems with
the weber's intake manifold. This sort of thing is
pretty much what volvo did on the penta AQ130 motor
with a pair of downdraft solex carbs.
You can probably use any old downdraft carb for this
application, also, not just webers. An ideal junkyard
engineering setup would be to use a pair of some cheap
carbs like off of an old ford.
chris
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posted by
someone claiming to be Brickme
on
Sat Feb 15 15:33 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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posted by
someone claiming to be Charles Greenlaw
on
Wed Feb 12 16:14 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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...I've got an old Ford. Its original carb has worked superbly for me for 35 years, and it would for you too, provided it's installed on the model of old Ford it was built for. Otherwise, forget it. No user adaptability to an engine of much different size or different number of cylinders drawing off each throat.
Of course Holley adapted the carb used on the last Ford flathead V8s for use on air cooled VWs, but it was not done with just a screwdriver. The thing was redesigned professionally. That leaves us with the carbs built for limited production cars and which have lots of user-changeable calibration parts. These include SU and Weber carbs, both of which, depending on whose opinion it is, are junk. Such a pity.
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The DGV is a econo carb.The SU's are better than the DGV.I went with a DGV and was not happy,I than tryed a DGAS 40/40 and I'm very happy with it.The 40/40 gives alot more
power than the SU's on there best day.With the Weber,I get in turn the key and go.
The SU's are alot of trouble,anyone that say's different is a liar.The Weber took two days
to setup and has not needed any adjustment in 3 months.
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posted by
someone claiming to be cameron
on
Tue Feb 11 05:13 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Ow! My pants are on fire!
I recently spent a many many hours trying to get my DGEV to work on the 122 wagon. I jetted, adjusted, screwed around and got it so that the car would start and run like crap.
Then I spent about an hour installing SUs (good ones) and about 15 minutes adjusting them.
I can appreciate anyone's frustration with worn out SUs (they're horrible) but the improvement in my experience is enormous!
Anyone who'd like to come over and put the Weber back on to show me that it's better than SUs is welcome. I'll supply whatever tools and parts you need.
Any takers? Anyone?
Best,
Cameron
Rose City
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68;
...then I will be a liar, GLADLY!
...WOW, three whole months without adjustment...NONE of the SUs on ANY of my vehicles have needed "adjustment" in TEN YEARS! ...sorry, I lied...I just wore out, and had to replace a throttle return spring on the Snow Weasel.
I have to admit, about 30 years ago, I too was pretty intimidated by them, and would ask my friend "the expert" to make any and all adjustments - even idle...then he moved away, and I edumacated myself about them...one of best things I ever did (now I do idle adjustments myself)...and learning about them didn't even take so long...what, with a total of about four moving parts...the elegance is in the way they got just those few moving parts to do the job perfectly that's really impressive, and clearly one of the few things the British got right (cause it doesn't have anything to do with electricity, I guess!).
...maybe you were one of the many who had some bad experiences with SUs, and didn't want to take a little time to understand them...too bad...you don't know what you're missing, but: To each his own!
Cheers
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Like I said Ron,your a liar!I know all about Skinners.I worked on my first set at the age of
12 and had a full understanding of them.I'm now 41 and have spent the last 11+ years
working in a motorcycle shop.There's not a carb on earth that can go 30 years without
work(alot of work).SU's are crap.There a crappy design.There preety much all or nothing.
With a good weber(38/38 or 40/40)you get an even flow of power,alot more low end and
better midrange.Good luck in your SU world(its not the world I'm living in).
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68;
Fine. You keep your Webers (I have nothing against them...if I was building a racecar, I might fit them also), but I'll keep my SUs on my road cars, thanks.
My daily driver '66 122 has 23X,000 mi, and the original HS6s with Grose bowl valves (and ONE new throttle return spring)...THAT'S IT! The throttle bushings are a bit sloppy at this point (so it idles hi, but so what...I don't drive around much at idle!)...I'll go through them at the next opportunity...but my carbs sure as hell haven't needed "a lot of work" so how can I agree with you!
Incedentally what do you do at the shop when someone brings in a Hawg fitted with one of those terrible SUs? (which is apparently a popular change...I wonder why?)...do you give it to one of the other "liars" to work on, or does your shop just work on Jappy bikes, just about ALL of which are fitted with carbs of that "crappy" CONSTANT VELOCITY design?...just wondering! Hmmmm
I guess we'll just have to agree to dissagree on this one...that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla....but we can still drink beer together, OK?
BTW, Do you have a name, or is there some reason you need to hide behind anonymity. I stand behind what I state...with my name!
Cheers
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Gee Ron,are we feeling bipolar today?When a hog comes in to the shop,we send him
packin.I know nothing about HD(by choice).I work on JapScrap,you know,the ones that
cost hafe as much go twice as fast at about 400lb.The HD that use SU's is know suprise
to me(why use a good carb on a peice of crap bike).You've got it in reverse though,the
weber 40/40 is better for the street and the SU's,well like I said before.SU's were crap
from the start and have not become any better over the last 37 years.When folks go for
a ride in my 142,the first thing they say is this Volvo rips or MAN this thing runs nice.
What do your rides say?Maybe something like caugh caugh,will this bucket pass smog?
Or what that black smoke from your tail pipe mean?
By the way,people pay me alot to make there 130hp Honda put out 150+hp(with carb
tuning/jetting only).I've also put Jap carbs on a Volvo and it ran better that way than with
a Weber or SU's.My main reason for useing a 40/40 Weber is cost($225.)and $25.for
a junkyard intake.Mikuni's would cost over $1000.with an intake(whats the point on a B18B).Anyway,these boards are ment to be fun.Trying to share info with foolish folks
is no fun.
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You've installed motorcycle carbs on a volvo? I'd really
like to try doing this on one of my cars (maybe the 164 --
6 carbs all in a row would be pretty cool looking...)
Any suggestions on which carbs to use? I'd like to do it
on a budget...
chris
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You can do it but it will cost you $1500.in carbs alone(40mm Mikuni Flat slides are what I've used)and you'll need to make an intake.I had a shop in Alameda,Ca.make the b18b
intake and it cost $400.At the cost of the carbs and intake(around $2000.),you be better
off with a Chevy 350 V8(new cost <$1200.)
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I'm still waiting to see a Harley with a DGV on it.
8^)
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I remember seeing a Hawg with a polished/chromed (of course) DCOE...that was pretty impressive...of course that Weber probably never opened more than half way...
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The good thing about the SU's is that they can be tuned via adjustments. Webers must be tuned by swapping hardware.
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SUs are extremely stable if they're in good shape, and bolted onto a motor that's in good shape. I've been able to go a year at a time without adjusting them in any way.
If they are not in good shape (leaking around the throttle shafts and/or non-centered jets, typically), or if there are problems with the motor, you'll be tinkering daily.
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On a budget, I'd go with regular old SU HS6 carbs. Properly rebuilt and with the right needles, they work really well. Most of the Z-T rebuild price is cosmetic; you can get a perfectly good functional set for a lot less.
I don't personally think there's any real advantage to HI-Fs. With the HS6, you don't need to invent a throttle or choke linkage.
SUs have several performance advantages over the DGV, even a trick DGV:
1) They're bigger. HS6 has 44mm throttles, multiply that by two. DGV has one 32mm and one 36mm throttle.
2) All manifold runners for the SU are the same length -- this does have an effect on tuning. DGV has two long and two short runners; you tune for the average and no one cyl gets set up for max performance.
3) SU manifold gives a straight shot at the intake valve, with very little turbulence. DGV manifold requires the mixture to go around a bunch of turns, which knocks som portion of the atomized fuel out of the air.
4) They're simple -- buy two correct needles and your done spending on tuning. DGV has two idle jets, two main jets, and emulsion tubes and air correctors that don't come in the IPD jetting kit. You may or may not get lucky on those.
Don't think I don't like the DGV, even having said all that. It just isn't as well suited for performance applications as side-draft carbs, which seems to be what you're after.
(Phil now ducks the volley of cannonballs from people who think the DGV performs better than SUs because they replaced nasty worn out SUs with a shiny new DGV...)
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I don't think you'll have to do too much ducking, Phil...
Nicely written... I'd take a good pair of HS6s over a single webber any day. My experience is that they work better, they are easier to set up correctly. And even if they ain't set up just right, they still work better than an incorrectly set up webber.
Cheers!
-Matt
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posted by
someone claiming to be Al 260Z
on
Mon Feb 10 14:32 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Even though I'm running dual DGVs on my 260Z (inline 6), I'd go for dual SUs if I was looking into a new setup. Much, much less hassle and expense than DCOEs, and probably a good bit less than DGVs also. I've heard that DCOEs set up for WOT can get terrible fuel economy.
SU's are a great performing carb with good part-throttle economy AND WOT performance. Probably one of the easiest carbs to self-maintain, rebuild, and tune. The only thing that's not self-repairable is worn throttle shaft and bushings.
Later,
Al
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1) You need a set of HS6 carbs in good rebuilt shape. You need -- ummm -- KD needles in them.
2) You need an early intake B18-style intake manifold.
3) You need a heat shield for HS6, not HI-F, carbs.
4) You need all the linkage bits.
5) You need Shayne.
(The first 4 items are all stock Volvo parts. Shayne is a custom job.)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Tim
on
Tue Feb 11 13:10 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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On the subject of the heatsheild, does anyone know where to get the ITG foam air filter that fits over airhorns and heat sheild? I would like that set up on my 164.img src='/GALLERY/images/1856.jpg, imgsrc='/GALLERY/images/1855.jpg
Tim
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Those pictures are from the Grassroots Motorsports project 122. Go to www.grassrootsmotorsports.com and go to the project cars section. Scroll down to the Volvo 122 and they say where they got them, but I can't recall now.
--
Justin 70 1800E, 66 122E, 71 145S
Read vclassics!
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