Hello all,

I am having many difficulties with a water pump for a B30a which is in my C303/TGB11 (same engine as the 164 carb version). I am on attempt #5 and am still experiencing leaks and am not sure what's going on.

TO start I made sure to clean the face of the block and the overhanging portion of the head thoroughly each time with copper scotch pad and brake cleaner so there is no residual rust or gasket material each time the pump is put in place.

For the last attempt I made my own gasket out of .45mm thick material which has created a situation where I have the least amount of leaking but still enough that the vehicle cannot be considered fully operational. I have three varying sized top head seals which are all varying in sizes. One set is 8.25mm tall, one 8.5mm tall and the last is 10mm tall. I had the worst success with the 10mm tall seals.

I have used hylomar on the top seals as well as the block/pump gasket.

Here is the process I have followed for getting the pump mounted:

First I place the pump where I can run the top right (passenger side) bolt and just about snug the bolt where the pump can still move a bit with pressure applied. Then with the help of a friend we swing the pump up and apply pressure until we can run the left top bolt (drivers side) and then partially snug it as well. Once this is done we do the same with the lower bolt then with a jack and a 2x4 we apply pressure from the underside of the pump and once we have applied what we consider enough pressure (suspension relaxes a bit) then we torque down the top left and lower bolt. After this we remove the top right bolt and run the heater pipe and align the heater pipe bracket then run the bolt back in and torque it down.

The pump I am using is a gates 42276 but this begs to question what is considered OEM quality on these pumps since there is no OEM Volvo pump being manufactured (original part # 461162-0 / TGB B30a or 461094 / 164 B30 series). The only real difference between these two OEM variation of pumps should be the fan mounting flange since the 164 uses a direct mounted fan whereas the C303 uses a shaft mounted remote fan and single vs dual belt setups.

Anyways, it really doesn't matter which way we try to install this pump we are consistently getting leaks from the top corners. It's really hard to tell if this weeping is originating from the top seals themselves or if the weeping is coming from the bolt hole locations.


If anyone has some experience and can chime in any and all feedback would be appreciated.

For what it's worth some have reported that they removed the head to install the pump and still experienced leaking so I would prefer not to remove the head as it doesn't seem to be a foolproof way in getting a dry and successful pump replacement.

Your fit technique sounds fine but you might be screwing in the bolts a bit too snug before using the jack and 2x4. Leaving it jacked up for half an hour while you have a coffee might be a good idea, That gives it time to slide and the seals time to compress. Torque down all bolts and don't remove any to fit the pipes and hoses. If a bracket uses one of the bolts fit it correctly at the same time. Removing one bolt might allow the pump to move again. I've not fitted a 164 pump, only B18 ones. Yes, I have fitted seals that were too long and had them collapse, that's easy to do. I've also fitted a pump that seemed OK but leaked from the seal after the first long trip. Cured that by loosening the bolts and then using the jack and 4x2 again. I just use a smear of grease on both sides of the gasket, applied with a finger. That holds the gasket in place initially and gives enough slide to position the pump.

It's so tricky because I feel if they are too lose then you end up dragging the top seals and they are more prone to deforming/peeling over. I guess I could run the heater pipe in first. I did it once that way it's just with the TGB it's a pain in the ass because unlike a 164 it has more heater connections so there are two sets of pipes that run and there's also an elbow that runs into the line right near the pump input so it either requires that elbow to come off (a real pain in the ass) or a second pair of hands up top to hold the pipe back far enough that you can get the pump in then once positioned to put it in and try to line it up. I think it would be a bit easier if you stabbed it first then before jacking but after the other bolts are run to pull that bolt out, insert it in then put it in then jack it up.

Another fear of mine was in warping the pump by having too much slack in the bolts and applying that much pressure on the pump. The tgb is heavy it's really easy to forget that when you are jacking up on the pump alone from the underside.

I do like your idea of letting it sit and settle while having a coffee (or beer).

It's so tricky because I feel if they are too lose then you end up dragging the top seals and they are more prone to deforming/peeling over.

That's not really a problem, I've pulled plenty of heads to see the seals pushed sideways and taken a set that way. Don't leak, don't block any flow either.

If they really do flop over rather than just distort just enough to leak, it probably means you have used seals that are too long.
If fitting in the car, be sure that the hidden head face is clean and smooth, use a mirror if needed.

I have never installed a Gates water pump for any of my customers Volvos as I prefer GMB or original Volvo water pumps and have been using them for over 20 years, but that may not be the issue.

Do you know which exact thickness head gasket is installed in you C303?

There were 4 different thickness head gaskets and the 2 seals at the head need to be the right height to match.

The 2 thinner head gaskets use the same height water pump seals and those are the ones that always come with the water pump.

However the 2 thicker head gaskets require taller water pump seals.

IIRC, the Volvo kits would come with 2 different thickness sets of seals for the 4 cylinder water pump kits, but I can't remember if the OE B30 kits came the same way.

I have at least 1 of the taller water pump seal sets and a water pump gasket in stock.

--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com

So in checking the head gasket size on this particular engine is .8mm but after torqued down it's .7mm.

.7mm compressed is the thinnest, B30E gasket, so the shortest O-Rings on top.

You sound like you know what you are doing, I have to ask where was the leak coming from on the old pump? If there was no leak from the weaphole, then there is nothing wrong with the pump. The heater pipe on the side, is it not too rusty for it's ring? Is there a chance the leak is from the headgasket along the side under the manifold which is running around to the front? I don't know what angle the motor is mounted having not been lucky enough to see one in the flesh.

The O rings need nothing, luckily Hylomar does no harm. A tiny amount of hylomar is all the gasket needs and NEVER use silcone garbage on a donk.

Also, does it leak without pressure? I've never run a pressure cap on a B18/B20/B30 powered car, but you would need one for 4wd.

Yes, the old pump was leaking but it was really hard to tell where due to the amount of old grease on the front of the block. Initially I thought it was an oil leak because the hot water would take some of the oil with it so it looked more like oil staining on the drive than coolant. It was dripping on the lip of the front oil/sump cover adjacent to the the balancer. Also, the pump had turned loud as though bearings were on their way out.

It's really hard to tell exactly where the leak is coming from whether it is a top seal weeping and that weep is cascading down the top of the pump then flowing off to the top flange from the bolt hole or if it's in fact weeping at the bolt hole itself. The leak on the top left side seems to be coming from the very top of the pump at the top where the pump seals against the face of the block.

Tried to upload some pictures to attach.

All the bolt holes are blind, in the block and head, except that 1/2 inch LHD alternator hole down lower.
In this pic, the biggest at the top, is that a scratch though the oil adjacent to the left hand top bolt, or a crack...



But 1st, the new bolt, could it be too long? Add another washer (Clutching at straws)

Can you put a little can of corrision inhibitor or some dye in the coolant to make it easier to see.
Fixing the oil leak wouldn't hurt either, take the tappet cover off, belt the screwholes in the sheetmetal flat, if the cork gasket is still in one piece and not shrunk to short, it will work again. You need some large diameter heavy gauge washers to spread the load of the screws better, cad plated please.

Can you have a look at the weaphole on the old pump? If the seal was leaking, it comes out the hole, so you should have a muddy or green stain coming out. The weaphole saves the bearings, so if they feel bad, something might be wrong with alignment with whatever is attached to the front of the pump, or whatever those big belts drive is too much strain on the bearings. What do the two big belts drive? In a 164 it's just one regular belt driving the pump, alternator and fan blades. The power steering pump gets a belt of it's own in a car, so it's a half wrap around both pulleys & it's a collassal pump same as fitted to the 10 litre truck donkey from that era.

So a pic of what the big belts drive + a pic of what's in front of that pulley please.

On the bolts I matched them to the same lengths so it should be ok.

This has been an ongoing job for two months so while the pump was out I replaced the sump, valve, timing gear gaskets and front main seal so there are no more oil leaks. That discoloration is from it being wet trust me that is not oil on there. :)

I remember looking at this location when the pump was out and I don't remember seeing a crack but that's not to say it isn't there...that's for sure. As to the weep hole I had a check on the pump and there is no coolant stain but the entire pump was covered in a thick coating of oil/grease so this doesn't mean that it wasn't there.

On the C303/TGB the B30 has a dual belt drive that runs a remote cooling fan since it is mid-engine (or close to it) so a rod attaches to the pump pulley via a metal/rubber coupling on both ends so that it can spin the fan up front. The fan has it's own bearing/coupling on the front end of the truck so it doesn't really have much resistance on the pulley other than just having the rod connected to it.

Eric,

I am working on seeing if I can get an actual thickness on the stock head gasket but if I am not mistaken the B30a in the C303 should be the same thickness as those used on the carb version of the 164. My particular variant runs the Stromberg 175 CD2-SE carbs.

It could very well an issue with quality of pump used I won't deny that. The mating surface seems to be rougher than I would expect on a pump machine surface. Let me ask this. The GMB pumps have a flat/smooth mating surface? Also are they aluminum?

The question in regards to the top seals..it's a confusing one. Larger vs smaller isn't really working if there are more than two sizes. It would be nice to know what the actual size in height each seal should be based on B30a/e/f variants. This should only pertain to stock units and not altered B30's

"....It would be nice to know what the actual size in height each seal should be based on B30a/e/f variants...."

And, to further complicate things, how deep are the channels in the top of the pump compared to an OE pump?

If the seals are too short, it will obviously leak. And if the seals are too tall, they can fold over which will cause it to leak. You also have to be careful that you pry the pump STRAIGHT up - no wiggling left/right or fore/aft if you can help it.
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Current rides: 2018 Volvo S60 Inscription (What the heck do all these buttons do?), 2005 Volvo S80 2.5T (Soon to go bye-bye), 2003 Volvo V70 2.4NA (The family "truck"), 1973 Volvo 1800ES (STILL not road worthy!)

I will work on getting a measurement of depth for this groove on my old pump. Will take some time to get it on the newer pump. It seems almost impossibly easy to drag the top seals along the top.

Try this...

With no gasket or top seals, screw all the fasteners in to where they just barely touch the pump, then back them out about 1-2 turns. Then slide the pump upward as far as you can and see how much gap there is between the bottom of the head and the top of the pump.

I had a new aftermarket pump (can't recall the brand) that I put on a red block motor one time and the pump casting was so crappy that I had to clean out a couple of the bolt holes with a rat tail file in order to allow the pump to slide up to within a reasonable distance from the head and provide a decent amount of top seal "squish".
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Current rides: 2018 Volvo S60 Inscription (What the heck do all these buttons do?), 2005 Volvo S80 2.5T (Soon to go bye-bye), 2003 Volvo V70 2.4NA (The family "truck"), 1973 Volvo 1800ES (STILL not road worthy!)

Valid point Chris. I will make sure to check this out when I get the pump back off!!!