I've been out of town and missed this one, but now feel compelled to comment. My daughter is 17 1/2 and a very good driver of both her '93 940 and a '94 Nissan Pathfinder (speaking of bricks). But I do not let her drive her Mom's '97 960. Both my wife and I had the 960 hydroplane and fishtail (especially on highway exit ramps)until we routinely started running siped snow tires on all 4 wheels from November to April (Massachusetts); we carry 150 lbs (2 solid concrete blocks wedged in under the rear speakers (in the trunk) all year around. I agree with the 850/960 trade as it's too good a deal to pass up, but the more experienced driver will do better with the 960!